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#2684255 - 07/15/12 12:00 AM Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17783
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
The paper Genuine Toyota filters are specified for a 10k interval on my Prius. According to the Amsoil filter efficiency comparison chart, the Toyota filter was lower than any other OEM's filter in efficiency.

I plan to continue 10k intervals on the Prius, and am wondering if I should upgrade to a more efficient filter. The textbook engineers on priuschat insist that it is not necessary, but I wonder if the finer filtration would be beneficial to me in some way.

At $16/filter, the Amsoil EaO15k01 is serious $$$ compared to the $5 per OE Toyota filter. However, even if I go through another 20 oil filters, an extra $220 over the life of the car is not material anyway.

Thoughts?

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#2684287 - 07/15/12 01:42 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 4372
Loc: Florida
Better filtration = win in my books.

I buy my Amsoil oil filters in bulk (pack of 12) at PC pricing with only a $3 shipping / delivery charge from my dealer. It's still expensive, I agree but the better filtration is worth it to me.

I personally use them for the full rated 15k. If I run it for 10k in my Civic, I'll reuse that filter in another car for another 5k to get that last bit of use outta it. UOA of the second car showed good filtration so I keep on doing this.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Avalon Limited 3.5L V6 - 52k - 5w30 Mobil 1

2014 RAM 3500HD work truck

2014 Mazda 3 hatch i Touring 2.0L & 6spd - Mobil 1 0w30

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#2684300 - 07/15/12 03:33 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
Scott_Tucker Offline


Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 872
Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca.
A higher efficiency filter will get restricted sooner, thus offsetting the gains. An oil filter is just there to catch dead birds and tree branches. Having some particles floating in the oil is not an issue. How many old VW bugs have you seen with a gazillion miles? All they had was a strainer.
_________________________
2012 Honda Civic Si, Dyno Blue Pearl

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#2684302 - 07/15/12 03:39 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: Scott_Tucker]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 17783
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
A higher efficiency filter will get restricted sooner, thus offsetting the gains. An oil filter is just there to catch dead birds and tree branches. Having some particles floating in the oil is not an issue. How many old VW bugs have you seen with a gazillion miles? All they had was a strainer.

I would not expect the Amsoil Ea Filter to be completely restricted before 10k. However, I see your point on the necessity issue.

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#2684327 - 07/15/12 06:24 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
chad8 Offline


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 1251
Loc: michigan
If the largest automobile company in the world can't spec a filter to protect its flagship vehicles then how would you believe an Amsoil website to say it is a low quality filter.
Ill take an toyota oem filter spec any day. Especially from a company that I have 2 cars at 225000 and 308000 miles. Plus I use toyota filters. Imagine that .

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#2684337 - 07/15/12 07:08 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46683
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: The Critic

At $16/filter, the Amsoil EaO15k01 is serious $$$ compared to the $5 per OE Toyota filter. However, even if I go through another 20 oil filters, an extra $220 over the life of the car is not material anyway.

Thoughts?


From the same company that brought us sludge engines? Sure I trust Toyota. Not.

First of all I just paid $7.52 for Wix from Carquest for the Avalon. I'm doing a short run clean thing, just to show you I don't always use Amsoil - PLUS I just did a year plus run on a older Mann on the Volvo, so I do run other filters long as well.

My point? 10K. Piece of cake. Choose either filter. The EaO does filter better (no Amsoil just didn't make up the results guys) but you need to decide if that makes a difference in wear. It does, but you need to decide. grin2

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#2684358 - 07/15/12 07:39 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
NHGUY Offline


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3371
Loc: USA
You trust Toyota? Look Akio Toyoda straight in the eye....remember this is the guy that would not bow on US soil.But every other country he went to he did.He hates America,their society hates us.But they love our money.

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#2684656 - 07/15/12 02:01 PM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
CMMeadAM Offline


Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 321
Loc: IL, USA
Let's see now.....sway bars.....lowering springs.....multiple expenditures on tires.....and yodeling about a $15 oil filter vs a $5 filter.....uh huh!

But...to each his /her own. No doubt the OEM filter will do it's job over the 10K interval, ohterwise it wouldn't be recommdended. However, improved filtration can be obtained by going to Toyota's own synthetic element performance oil filter, the TRD PTR43-52060, which is actually LESS than the
Amsoil synthetic element filter.

We've used all three, in several Prius' in the company fleet (2010's to 2012's), along with the appropriate Fram cartridge filter, and UOA particle counts show better filtration with the TRD and Amsoil filters.

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#2685594 - 07/16/12 12:26 PM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: Scott_Tucker]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7414
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
A higher efficiency filter will get restricted sooner, thus offsetting the gains.


It really depends on the surface area. With more surface area, a more efficient filter can go just as long, or longer than, a filter with less surface area and less filtering efficiency.

Holding capacity and flow restriction of a filter is all a balance between media efficiency and media area.

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#2685633 - 07/16/12 12:49 PM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4381
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Critic, you already know this - it will make zero difference to the longevity of the engine.
I'd go for cheap and easy to obtain filters. No need to sit on a case of them that would take years to use.
What if you get bored of it and sell the Prius at 100k? If your commute shortens and you want a more fun to drive car? I don't see the benefit for the cost.

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#2686263 - 07/16/12 10:45 PM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: Pablo]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1060
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Pablo


From the same company that brought us sludge engines? Sure I trust Toyota. Not.


....yet Amsoil sells Mann filters, which are one of the OE Suppliers to Volkswagen AG, another company that brought us sludge engines.

And... if there isn't a Amsoil Ea filter application... that's why Amsoil sells Mann.

Kinda puts things in a different perspective, right?

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#2686363 - 07/17/12 04:41 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: The Critic]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I'm not familiar with the Prius engine; is it a known sludger or have other lube-related problems? If so, I'd go with a premium filter. The EaO certainly is a quality piece, but at $15, is it worth it? Does the ROI pay out?

Could you get any other premium filter for less that would do a job as well, or nearly as well? For a 10K mile OCI, I'd think that you could locate a Wix, PureOne, Bosch DP, etc for "better" filtration, but less cost.

If I were greatly extending the OCI, then the EaO would be almost a necessity. But you're not doing so, right? Therefore the EaO is a bit of overkill, and probably will not give a decent ROI.

It's a matter of "good; better; best". Do you really need "best" performance for "normal" applications?
Maybe you can get "better" for less cost, and not worry about the "best"?


I did a cursory search on the Prius engine and tried to find any known lube issues, and came up with nothing. If there is an issue that I'm not aware of, then it would certainly alter my position here. As far as I can tell, although Toyota has had some known engine issues with other designs, the Prius isn't one of them. So, fear of terrible trauma is not warranted.

My point boiled down:
* Toyota filter for $5 will probably make the engine last a very long time, because of the good engine design with no known lube issues.
* A good mid-line filter such as Wix, PureOne, Bosch DP, etc would be "better" for around $8 or so?
* The Premium EaO, M1 and such are much more money, and do a fantastic job.

Keep in mind that the cost of products are relative to the OCI duration. We've seen it time and time again. Will you get less wear with a better filter? Yes - absolutely. Will it get down below a point where any shift in wear delta is tangible? Probably not.

This is almost exactly like the whole dino/syn oil debate. Where's the ROI? If you spend 3x more money on an EaO filter, do you get 3x less wear over that 10k mile OCI??? In 10k miles, are you going to see one-third of the Cu, Pb, Al and Fe wear metals from using an EaO? I seriously doubt it! To the contrary, in "normal" OCIs, filtration seems to matter little (if any at all) in regard to wear metal results. I would challenge anyone to show me conclusive proof that using a premium product for the OEM OCI makes any distinct statistical difference whatsoever. To be direct, I completely agree that the EaO will do a better job of reducing contamination in the lube stream, but to what end? Does it makes sense to invest 300% of your money for only perhaps a 5-10% wear delta, if it even exists at all, in the stated OCI?

If you're going to extend the OCI, then high end products make sense. If not, then "normal" products will do just fine.


Edited by dnewton3 (07/17/12 04:51 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2686379 - 07/17/12 05:34 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: UG_Passat]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46683
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Pablo


From the same company that brought us sludge engines? Sure I trust Toyota. Not.


....yet Amsoil sells Mann filters, which are one of the OE Suppliers to Volkswagen AG, another company that brought us sludge engines.

And... if there isn't a Amsoil Ea filter application... that's why Amsoil sells Mann.

Kinda puts things in a different perspective, right?


Not really. In fact, huge stretch. Mann does not equal VW just because they are a supplier to VW. And we are talking about a Toyota with an EaO.

If you want to say our lives and cars and other things depend on the manufacturers. Sure, welcome to 1940 or so.

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#2686386 - 07/17/12 06:09 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: Pablo]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11596
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Not really. In fact, huge stretch. Mann does not equal VW just because they are a supplier to VW. And we are talking about a Toyota with an EaO.


That makes me consider another point. A lot of the German applications already specify a Mann (or Hengst or Mahle or Bosch) with the fleece type media, for long drains. Are at least some of the Manns that Amsoil sells these fleece ones? My point is that with there being long drains already in these German cars, and long life filters already engineered to accommodate them, it would make sense to me for Amsoil to sell what's already available, rather than essentially start from scratch to design a new EaO.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2686391 - 07/17/12 06:18 AM Re: Toyota OEM vs Amsoil Ea Filter for 10k interval [Re: Garak]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46683
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: Garak


That makes me consider another point. A lot of the German applications already specify a Mann (or Hengst or Mahle or Bosch) with the fleece type media, for long drains. Are at least some of the Manns that Amsoil sells these fleece ones? My point is that with there being long drains already in these German cars, and long life filters already engineered to accommodate them, it would make sense to me for Amsoil to sell what's already available, rather than essentially start from scratch to design a new EaO.


I don't think Mann makes a fleece filter. Well at least I don't think so. The Mann for the Volvo is not fleece, for example - they just have a huge amount of filter media/surface area. But some Mann filters are real Mann filters (like the Volvo) and others are just Purolater, especially the small filters.

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