Recent Topics
Cartridge filters: OEM vs. Aftermarket
by dlundblad
1 minute 7 seconds ago
New Laptop: Toshiba vs. HP
by Tdbo
Today at 06:35 PM
Dale Armstrong RIP
by 02SE
Today at 06:30 PM
getting hosed by the water company
by ram_man
Today at 06:29 PM
2AZ-FE head bolt removal socket
by 01_celica_gt
Today at 05:55 PM
Sealants/Syn Waxes with good UV protection
by Robenstein
Today at 05:02 PM
Amusing TPMS issue
by OVERKILL
Today at 04:04 PM
$10 off all $50 gas cards at Publix
by LT4 Vette
Today at 03:56 PM
Cyber Monday good for computer prices
by oilboy123
Today at 03:29 PM
AAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

by Oldmoparguy1
Today at 03:01 PM
Ariens Snowblower Issue
by My442
Today at 02:31 PM
going back to green.
by chaindrive
Today at 02:29 PM
Newest Members
lobstah24, MilanV607, suspekt, NPA747, hgb
52023 Registered Users
Who's Online
102 registered (asand1, 01_celica_gt, Atlantis, aquariuscsm, Astro14, 11 invisible), 1352 Guests and 157 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
52023 Members
66 Forums
222727 Topics
3526080 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#2648844 - 06/08/12 07:08 PM Redline break in additive check out the MSDS
jsnyder49090 Offline


Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 346
Loc: south haven mi
How come i havent seen this on any oil additive threads to me it seems like the best i have ever seen myself??? http://www.fifthaveinternetgarage.com/tech_tips/tech_tips_Zincadditive_amount.html looks like i could get by with a couple oz of this and i think its like 10.95 at my speed shop ..


Edited by jsnyder49090 (06/08/12 07:09 PM)
_________________________
99 Regal LS
98 Regal GS L67
95 Chevy K1500
83 Buick LeSabre Limited
97 Regal GS L67
78 Granada 42,000 orig miles

Top
#2648847 - 06/08/12 07:18 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Red Line's additive has been mentioned here before.

The chart there is also a good reminder to dose things properly. One bottle of the additive in a five quart sump will result in a corrosive level of ZDDP. The half bottle recommendation makes much more sense.

In any case, what oil is the assumption based upon? After all, modern API oils do have ZDDP, usually from 600 to 800 ppm. HDEOs tend to have 1200 or so. Beware one's starting point, too.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2648891 - 06/08/12 08:01 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: Garak]
jsnyder49090 Offline


Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 346
Loc: south haven mi
For sure Garak i would only use 1/4 bottle if that,i think we are all only getting 800ppm max unless you use 15w up or a high dollar race oil.I dont believe the specs on the manufacters site,how can 10w30 VR1 and 20w/50 have the same amount of zinc? I think they have read some of these threads and are taking advantage of our desire to keep are engines alive with zinc.I dont believe the Defy is over 800 ppm either.
_________________________
99 Regal LS
98 Regal GS L67
95 Chevy K1500
83 Buick LeSabre Limited
97 Regal GS L67
78 Granada 42,000 orig miles

Top
#2648904 - 06/08/12 08:20 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Well, we went through the 10w-30 versus the 20w-50 in the other thread. Defy is above 800 ppm, at least according to SOPUS customer service. Do recall that plenty of HM oils have no API or ILSAC rating at all.

Until the PQIA happens to compare the HM oils, we'll really never know. As for the Red Line stuff, I'm not positive, but I believe Red Line themselves might have a chart that's based upon a certain baseline ZDDP level, to make things easier.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2649486 - 06/09/12 02:13 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29218
Loc: NJ
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

Top
#2649677 - 06/09/12 06:14 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
vo_marz Offline


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 118
Loc: UK
I dose only up to 1250-1400 PPM for Group 4 stuff
some oils ,like mobil racing, doesnt require any (1550-2200PPM)

Top
#2649678 - 06/09/12 06:16 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
doitmyself Offline


Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4794
Loc: MI
I'm surprised Red Line used this terminology: "Allow pistons rings to seat properly with less-slick oil,"

My chops got busted here recently for using the term "less slippery" in a break in oil discussion. spank

Top
#2649683 - 06/09/12 06:25 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: doitmyself]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11756
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Well, you might be right when speaking of aftermarket rebuilds, rather than an OEM new motor. Red Line is certainly targeting the aftermarket rebuild market.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2650298 - 06/10/12 01:27 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1145
Loc: Alaska
I brought it to Redline's attention that 16.6 gm S + 9.4gm Zn + 7.8gm P does NOT = 33.8 gm ZDDP.
ZDDP also consists of 4 alkyl groups, averaging about 6 carbons. So 9.4gm Zn goes into 90-100gm ZDDP.
I'd like to know the size and make-up of those alkyl groups (thermal stability) but they won't tell me.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

Top
#2652200 - 06/12/12 03:28 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
[RT] ProjUltraZ Offline


Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 1053
Loc: Honolulu, HI
the table on this page looks like it might be from Redline themselves but not sure. it also states 33.8g total ZDDP

4 oz in 5 qts should boost modern oils to the 1250-1350 Zn Ph range

http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/ZDDP.html




Top
#2652436 - 06/12/12 07:04 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14706
Loc: Iowegia
Quote:
I brought it to Redline's attention that 16.6 gm S + 9.4gm Zn + 7.8gm P does NOT = 33.8 gm ZDDP.
ZDDP also consists of 4 alkyl groups, averaging about 6 carbons. So 9.4gm Zn goes into 90-100gm ZDDP.
I'd like to know the size and make-up of those alkyl groups (thermal stability) but they won't tell me.



Good observation, but there are different flavors of ZDDP with varying ratios of metals and phos.
_________________________
Apparently some shoppers on black Friday will block and tackle better than your football team on Thanksgiving. smile

Top
#2655032 - 06/15/12 11:45 AM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12949
Loc: By Detroit
This reminds me of the stuff Bruce371 gave me. It was essentially what the oil companies add to the base oil to make a finished oil. Zinc and phosphorus were at levels about 20,000 ppm. I still have half a quart after sharing it with Gary Allen (RIP). I usually add 2 oz of this stuff to a crankcase load.

I don't put any oil additive in the Ranger though because she is running Redline and there is plenty of zddp in Redline.
_________________________
You're not a real gear head unless you love the smell of used motor oil.

Top
#2679113 - 07/09/12 03:56 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
[RT] ProjUltraZ Offline


Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 1053
Loc: Honolulu, HI
it's also really important to remember those numbers are IN Addition to the 780-850 ppm of Zn and Ph already in most oils. heres a better table http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/ZDDP.html

so 3 oz will get you 1200-1250 ppm like a race oil

Top
#2680610 - 07/11/12 09:39 AM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: MolaKule]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1145
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
I brought it to Redline's attention that 16.6 gm S + 9.4gm Zn + 7.8gm P does NOT = 33.8 gm ZDDP.
ZDDP also consists of 4 alkyl groups, averaging about 6 carbons. So 9.4gm Zn goes into 90-100gm ZDDP.
I'd like to know the size and make-up of those alkyl groups (thermal stability) but they won't tell me.



Good observation, but there are different flavors of ZDDP



Yes, as I stated, I would like to know the carbon group structure of the ZDDPs in their formulation.
That would tell me its' suitability for diesels vs. breakin for gasoline engine.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

Top
#2681011 - 07/11/12 04:53 PM Re: Redline break in additive check out the MSDS [Re: jsnyder49090]
vo_marz Offline


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 118
Loc: UK
the ZDDP in the break-in imho is pretty low in terms of durability
halved my OCI after i doped it to 1650 PPM levels .

differnt story when i changed to a high inherent ZDDP level oil (mobil racing 0W30/50)


Edited by vo_marz (07/11/12 04:53 PM)

Top