Hmm.... How much to the Oil filter gaskets really swell up? I put on my filters by hand... but usually can't get them back off without a filter wrench... They are smooth paint finish, so maybe my hands are just too slippery or something....
How much do the gaskets swell up?
- Thread starter WMSmotorhead
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You letting the engine cool down? Use oil on the seal?
Usually the engine is pretty close to operating temp when I drain them... Thus it may just be physics at work. I do oil the seals when I put the filter on initially.
Just to add detail I may have missed....
The oil filter I put on by hand a few months before... and then drove a full OCI on... doesn't like to come off without a wrench.
Just to add detail I may have missed....
The oil filter I put on by hand a few months before... and then drove a full OCI on... doesn't like to come off without a wrench.
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Ummm..... I always oil the gasket and it's always just as tight as when i put it on originally. Now it takes a little effort to break it loose but that's just from it being sealed against the filter mount. Remember 3/4 turn after the gasket makes contact.
I can't say I've ever had a problem taking off a filter that I have put on by hand. I always wipe a bit of oil around the seal on the new filter. I don't put them on as tight as I can either, just the 1/2 or 3/4 turn after the gasket contacts.
I always put my filters on by hand and I can pretty much never remove them by hand. I always use a filter wrench.
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Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
Usually the engine is pretty close to operating temp when I drain them... Thus it may just be physics at work. I do oil the seals when I put the filter on initially.
Just to add detail I may have missed....
The oil filter I put on by hand a few months before... and then drove a full OCI on... doesn't like to come off without a wrench.
When you put the filter on engine was cool, when you tried to take it off engine was hot..
I don't think its the seals but I do think there is minor expansion of the thin metal can when its hot. Some more than others depending on composition and thickness. Maybe the filter housing too. Depending on what you consider hand tight it could be just enough to not to be able to get it off without a wrench.
I understand why you change the oil when its warm. I do that too. But not scalding operating temps hot. I don't think I'm getting any less out because its a little cooler. Oil still has to drain back to the sump over a period of time, watching it drip for an hour, or waiting for the engine too cool for 20 mins makes no diff IMO.
Try letting it cool down more then try removing the filter, see if that helps.
Usually the engine is pretty close to operating temp when I drain them... Thus it may just be physics at work. I do oil the seals when I put the filter on initially.
Just to add detail I may have missed....
The oil filter I put on by hand a few months before... and then drove a full OCI on... doesn't like to come off without a wrench.
When you put the filter on engine was cool, when you tried to take it off engine was hot..
I don't think its the seals but I do think there is minor expansion of the thin metal can when its hot. Some more than others depending on composition and thickness. Maybe the filter housing too. Depending on what you consider hand tight it could be just enough to not to be able to get it off without a wrench.
I understand why you change the oil when its warm. I do that too. But not scalding operating temps hot. I don't think I'm getting any less out because its a little cooler. Oil still has to drain back to the sump over a period of time, watching it drip for an hour, or waiting for the engine too cool for 20 mins makes no diff IMO.
Try letting it cool down more then try removing the filter, see if that helps.
I generally hand tighten to 2/3-3/4 turn after (pre-oiled) gasket contact. However, when I remove the filter (warm to hot) I usually have to start the filter with a filter/cap wrench. As mentioned, expansion from heat is most likely a factor when changed with engine warm to hot, if the filter was allowed to cool for awhile it would likely come off by hand. That would be especially true on a filter using textured can.
This topic has come up before, and the funny thing is several posters very adamantly attested that the filter was easier to remove when the engine is hot.
However, that is not my experience and I don't understand how that's possible.
This topic has come up before, and the funny thing is several posters very adamantly attested that the filter was easier to remove when the engine is hot.
When I change oil and filter, I take my time. Let the car sit 30 min after a full hot shutdown, then start the draining. Go do something else around the house for an hour, then come back and remove the filter. By then things have cooled down substantially (and oil well drained), and filter always comes off by hand (using PureOne with grippy surface helps). Clean up, install new filter and oil.
Are leaks the potential danger/result of tightening more than the suggested 2/3-3/4 turn after gasket contact, or just an ordeal to get said filter off at OCI end??
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Are leaks the potential danger/result of tightening more than the suggested 2/3-3/4 turn after gasket contact, or just an ordeal to get said filter off at OCI end??
Unlikely, but possible. There have been reports of filters leaking at the seam of the can. Never read a conclusive answer why it happened, but surely tightening the filter to the point it flexes would be a possibility.
Are leaks the potential danger/result of tightening more than the suggested 2/3-3/4 turn after gasket contact, or just an ordeal to get said filter off at OCI end??
Unlikely, but possible. There have been reports of filters leaking at the seam of the can. Never read a conclusive answer why it happened, but surely tightening the filter to the point it flexes would be a possibility.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I generally hand tighten to 2/3-3/4 turn after (pre-oiled) gasket contact. However, when I remove the filter (warm to hot) I usually have to start the filter with a filter/cap wrench. As mentioned, expansion from heat is most likely a factor when changed with engine warm to hot, if the filter was allowed to cool for awhile it would likely come off by hand. That would be especially true on a filter using textured can.
This topic has come up before, and the funny thing is several posters very adamantly attested that the filter was easier to remove when the engine is hot.
However, that is not my experience and I don't understand how that's possible.
When hot the rubber is softer. Softer rubber -> lower clamping force -> less static friction to overcome to break it free. If you cranked that filter down animalistically tight and ground it down to a metal-metal mating, then maybe it doesn't work that way and you'd have to account for different metals and expansion rates. If it's on the looser side and just barely tight enough that it doesn't leak unless you get the revs up too high, well, when cold the rubber might shrink enough that it's barely making contact and you can unscrew it with one finger and while warm it won't be quite so loose.
I generally hand tighten to 2/3-3/4 turn after (pre-oiled) gasket contact. However, when I remove the filter (warm to hot) I usually have to start the filter with a filter/cap wrench. As mentioned, expansion from heat is most likely a factor when changed with engine warm to hot, if the filter was allowed to cool for awhile it would likely come off by hand. That would be especially true on a filter using textured can.
This topic has come up before, and the funny thing is several posters very adamantly attested that the filter was easier to remove when the engine is hot.
When hot the rubber is softer. Softer rubber -> lower clamping force -> less static friction to overcome to break it free. If you cranked that filter down animalistically tight and ground it down to a metal-metal mating, then maybe it doesn't work that way and you'd have to account for different metals and expansion rates. If it's on the looser side and just barely tight enough that it doesn't leak unless you get the revs up too high, well, when cold the rubber might shrink enough that it's barely making contact and you can unscrew it with one finger and while warm it won't be quite so loose.
Originally Posted By: yonyon
When hot the rubber is softer. Softer rubber -> lower clamping force -> less static friction to overcome to break it free.
Rubber, like all materials, also expands/grows with heat which would make it act like it was tighter than it was when cold.
When hot the rubber is softer. Softer rubber -> lower clamping force -> less static friction to overcome to break it free.
Rubber, like all materials, also expands/grows with heat which would make it act like it was tighter than it was when cold.
I like to tighten the oil filters on a little tight just to make sure there less chance of one not being secure or snug. Usually I'll go 3/4 or so.
Getting it off can sometimes be a chore and I might have to put some muscle behind it to get it off. Usually it's the drain plug that's a bigger problem than the oil filter though.
Getting it off can sometimes be a chore and I might have to put some muscle behind it to get it off. Usually it's the drain plug that's a bigger problem than the oil filter though.
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