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#265354 - 05/11/03 11:25 PM Re: Techron
kev99sl Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 302
Loc: Chicago
Just as an aside, there are at least a few of us here who have no access to Chevron gas. That's right: there are no Chevron stations anywhere near where I work or live. I stumbled on one when I was driving somewhere in the wilds of Indiana once, but haven't seen any around Chicago since I was a little kid. The only brands of gas prevalent around here are Shell, Mobil, and BP (Amoco). Lately, Citgo has been making inroads, there's a smattering of Marathon stations, a few more Clark stations, and of course Speedway and Super America.

It would be FANTASTIC if someone could confirm whether Techron, or the same mix of chemicals under a different name, is used in, say, Shell, Mobil, or BP gas.

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#265355 - 05/12/03 01:38 AM Re: Techron
ekrampitzjr Offline


Registered: 03/23/03
Posts: 788
Loc: Hopewell, Virginia, USA
[Off Topic!] Now that you've brought up the possibility that Techron or something similar may be in other gasolines besides Chevron, this brings up the issue of gasolines in general. Over the years I've noticed that my car just plain seems to prefer certain brands, and I think that the preference is related to additive packages. Here is an informal listing of "good" gasolines, in my opinion.

By the way, I always run 93 octane, based on the "cleaner fuel" theory--remember the Amoco Ultimate commercial a few years ago that showed the beaker full of black gunk that regular gas has in it that gives the amber color? I was doing this long before the Amoco commercial, as my old Festiva (bought new in '88) simply did not like regular. I got 350,000 miles out of that car and one experienced mechanic told me that he thought running the higher octane made a difference (cleanliness). The old thing loved Amoco Ultimate: it ran better and seemed to gain a few hp, surprisingly enough. And with less than 60 hp on tap, a couple extra horses made a difference. Even with my '97 Escort wagon I see differences in how this more powerful car runs and drives depending on the fuel I use.

Anyway, here's the good gas list in my order of preference:
Sunoco (no stations really close to me, but I'm on the road a lot and have used its 93 octane many times with excellent results)
Phillips 66 (rare here, but one station is relatively close)
Chevron
Texaco
Amoco (had a bad tankful of Ultimate last year, killed an O2 sensor, so I've been cautious since)
Pennzoil (tried it one time out of my area; good results)

Here's my "iffy" gas list. I'll use these if nothing else is available. Again, my opinion.
Citgo
Shell (though Shell should now be the same as Texaco, it isn't always around here)

Here's my list of fuels that I avoid at all costs. Again, my opinion. Even if running on fumes, I'll keep driving to avoid their use:
Exxon (had more than one bad tank from different stations, and even on a good day my cars haven't cared for its premium)
Mobil (same fuel as Exxon anyway)
Convenience store brands (certain of these, especially one chain based in Pennsylvania, have a really bad reputation)

The question I have is how the additive packages might have enhanced--or not--the fuel. And note that Chevron is on my good list. Your comments would be interesting.

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#265356 - 05/12/03 01:50 AM Re: Techron
Raptor6 Offline


Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 15
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Wouldn't know...I've only used Chevron in my car since I've had her. I will occasionally throw in some Techron cleaner for kicks even though I get small doses in the regular fill-ups.

I've used maybe 4-5 fuel system cleaners (RedLine & Chevron) in the last 40,000 miles. I usually dump it in and use the tank up right before an oil change. I really don't see/feel any differences...maybe the fuel system is already clean?

Either way, Chevron is good stuff. I do know my mother's SL2 Saturn can't use winter-formula Arco...

[ May 12, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Raptor6 ]

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#265357 - 05/12/03 05:16 AM Re: Techron
Rick in PA Offline


Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 2179
Loc: Southeastern, PA
Just got a couple of cans of Techron. They had a special cupon on them good for a $2 rebate or a free cap. I wonder what my free cap will look like?

Lexmexico, thanks for the info on Mexico City. It's always interesting to get an international perspective.

[ May 12, 2003, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Rick in PA ]

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#265358 - 05/13/03 01:01 AM Re: Techron
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2984
Loc: Lakeville, MN
Comparing gasoline brands can be a tricky subject. Depending on where you live, your gasoline may have been refined at a refinery owned by the name brand or been refined at the same place as all the other gasoline in the area. Gasoline is a "fungible" product, meaning that it doesn't matter what refinery it came from, but so long as it meets certain minimum standards, its all the same.

Gasoline retail outlets have two choices: Become branded, meaning affiliated with a brand and sell gas containing some additional additive to make it "unique" (as well as getting the beni of being associated with a name brand), or buy unbranded gasoline that meets minimum standards (kind of like the SL rating on motor oil - its only a minimum!)

When buying branded gasoline, the additives that make it unique are added at the rack before shipping to retailers.

With all that being said, when you buy a particular brand, who knows where it came from.

In this market, 90+% of our gas comes from one of four refineries. One is Tesoro in Mandan, North Dakota (formerly an Amoco refinery), Murphy Oil in Superior, Wisconsin (Retail brands include Spur and Wal-Mart), Marathon Ashland in St. Paul Park, Minnesota (Owners of Speedway Superamerica and Marathon brands), and Flint Hills Resources of Rosemount, Minnesota, who really aren't affiliated with any one brand name, except for Holiday convenince stores and their Blue Planet Low Sulphur gasoline.

Of the major brands here, a few ties become evident:

All Amoco, BP, and Tesoro gasoline comes from Mandan, ND. This is the only separate distribution system from the rest of the brands.

Holiday gasoline comes from Flint Hills, since the low sulphur fuel is an exclusive product.

Superamerica and Marathon stores obviously get gasoline from Marathon Ashland.

After that, who knows where what brand is refined. It's all a mish mash at that point.

So, in this market, the good (above average gas mileage, no hard starts pinging or knocking), the OK (OK in 1 or 2 of my fleet, bad in the others), the ugly (bad in all - knocks, pings, hard starts, low fuel mileage), and the don't know (haven't bought): ( Numbers are Percentages that are +/- from the overall average fuel mileage)

Good:
Tesoro +5
Phillips 66 +4.5
Citgo (replaced 76 in this market)+3
Amoco (being converted to BP's)+4

The OK:
Superamerica (The 800lb gorrilla) +1
Shell (old Texaco's)+0.5
Conoco -1.5
Holiday -2

The Bad:
Marathon -9
Texaco (All becoming Shell) -7
Mobil -6
Kwik Trip -9

Unknown:
Sinclair
Cenex
Spur

Thats based on two years of meticulous record keeping!

To me, yes there are a lot of variables at work here, but I have noted a difference between some brands. Is that the additives or different refinery? Tough to say! For Tesoro and Amoco, it may be the different refinery due to the different distrobution network than all the rest.

[ May 13, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]

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#265359 - 05/13/03 04:53 AM Re: Techron
segfault Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 190
Loc: KY
quote:
Originally posted by Lexmexico:
...never clean their tanks sufficiently. Hence, poor little engine. I buy Techron at Costco and that takes care of the problem easily.

Or poor little fuel filter! Are there Costcos in Mexico, or do you have to buy the Techron above the border?

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#265360 - 05/13/03 07:49 PM Re: Techron
Lexmexico Offline


Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Mexico
Costco is the only place that sells Techron here. Actually, fuel filters are changed on cars quite more frequently than one might believe. The Mexican mechanics know this. What they don't know it that would be cheaper to use an additive than to go through the mechanical hassle.

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#265361 - 05/19/03 05:36 PM Re: Techron
Les Offline


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 122
Loc: Kemah, TX
Amoco super premium (white gas) used to use Chevron's techron detergent package. BP now does not. I work at the largest BP refinery and know some of the blenders. The 87 octane does not have a detergent added but the 93 octane does, it is just not the Techron one that it used to have. Both have a corrosion inhibiter added.

Les

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#265362 - 05/19/03 05:58 PM Re: Techron
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1351
Loc: mechanicsburg, PA
Hey Les... Tell me more. BP/Amoco is my brand of choice. Knowing what you know, would you recommend this gas?

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#265363 - 05/19/03 07:10 PM Re: Techron
jason07-1zzfe Offline


Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 2095
Loc: IL
quote:
Originally posted by Les:
Amoco super premium (white gas) used to use Chevron's techron detergent package. BP now does not. I work at the largest BP refinery and know some of the blenders. The 87 octane does not have a detergent added but the 93 octane does, it is just not the Techron one that it used to have. Both have a corrosion inhibiter added.

Les

Good info! So is the new additive better/worse? Was the switch motivated by cost reduction as is S.O.P. for corporate buyouts/mergers after the bean counters take over?

Interesting because we're using BP/Amoco Premium in the GTP since I have a CC from them with free gas rebate. My car, now I just put cheapest stuff with an ounce or two Red Line SI-1. Usually gas from Jewel(grocery store) or Phillips 66.

And all gas grades requires some detergent by law, so I am confused there...

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#265364 - 05/20/03 09:10 AM Re: Techron
Les Offline


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 122
Loc: Kemah, TX
I may have gotten some information that was not exactly correct. I talked to another blender today. She said that we used (as Amoco) to add the detergent package to our gasoline here at the refinery. Now it is added at the bulk terminal after it leaves here. Also, probably all grades do get detergent added. We only add the corrosion inhibitor here to protect the pipeline. I will talk to some more people and see what else I can find out. Most of our gas here goes to Florida & the east coast (Atlanta). We have another big refinery in Whiting, IN that serves the Chicago area.

Les

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#265365 - 05/20/03 09:57 AM Re: Techron
Jimbo Offline


Registered: 02/13/03
Posts: 1347
Loc: California, USA
Les,

This is off-topic, but do you know where BPair brand aviation gasoline is made? The Jet A sold here at Long Beach is probably made at the BP Carson refinery, just down the road but 100 octane low lead is a low-volume specialty product. Chevron and Exxon 100LL come from Texas, not local refineries like Jet A.

On-topic comment on Techron, it does seem to remove upper cyliner deposits. My '88 Ford Ranger V-6 used to ping on 87 octane until a Techron treatment. This needed to be repeated about every 20,000 miles.

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#265366 - 05/21/03 07:35 AM Re: Techron
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2984
Loc: Lakeville, MN
As has been mentioned before, detergency additives are a requirement imposed by the EPA for gasoline to meet minimum standards. What did change in this case was where the additives were blended in - at the rack or at the refinery. No moe getting BP/Amoco additive packs when buying unbranded gasoline at the rack - this way it gets the minimum required by law and sets the BP/Amoco product slightly apart.

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#265367 - 05/22/03 10:11 AM Re: Techron
outrun Offline


Registered: 11/26/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: Texas & BWI Area
By the way,

Lucas UCL (upper cylinder lubricant) is also an excellent cleaner.

In addition to cleanliness maintenence it has a lubricant package which helps provide oil to the valves and compression rings and pumps...areas which really gasoline for "lube."

The other Lucas products have thier controversy, but UCL is legitimate IMO.

Redline S1-1 is great, albeit containing aggressive quiet aggressive solvents. A while back Molekule did some kitchen chemistry demonstrating that in 100% concentration it readily dissolved a nylon sock (demonstrative of a fuel pumps strainer.)

Techron & BG 44K are also great to support the string. Two successive applications of any of these products to a 1/4 tank of fuel will yield amazing MPG and driveability results [Wink]

I apologize for having no experiance with neutra or Shaeffers products in so far...please mass produce it for Pep Boys and Auto Zone please [Smile]

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#265368 - 05/25/03 11:18 PM Re: Techron
CJH Offline


Registered: 04/03/03
Posts: 488
Loc: Pennsylvania
quote:
Originally posted by mf150:
How effective is Techron at keeping our engines clean? I've been using nothing but Chevron 91 (highest we can get in Cali.) exclusively for teh BTU count, but how effective is their additive cleaner, Techron? Anyone done a study/analysis?

Thanks

MF, I'v been reading up on fuel system cleaners, and from what I have read, a product called "BG 44K" seems to be the best. Supposedly has the same active ingredient as Techron, but 3 times as potent. Hard to find locally. Prices vary greatly on the net. I see a Toyota dealer in Tx is selling it online for $14 and change. I am going to order 4 bottles and try it out.

I have a friend who is a Service Manager at a GM dealership. He told me GM used to discourage dealerships from pushing fuel additives, but they now say that aside from their own brand, nothing works as well as BG 44K. I think you use this only occasionally due to its potency...like once a year or once every 20,000 miles or so.

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