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#2652771 - 06/13/12 02:23 AM Another non-synthetic 0w-20
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 18860
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9040510&contentId=7061133

I was on the Castrol website earlier and noticed that GTX SynBlend is being offered in a 0w-20. The MSDS was issued on 4/10 so I am guessing that this is a new product.

Obviously, 0w20 can be blended without needing to use mostly synthetic base stocks. So, buyers should not assume that all 0w-20s will always be full-synthetic.
_________________________
11 Prius - 133k - M1 EP 0w20/OE
07 Accord 2.4 - 112k - M1 5w20/Fram Ultra Filter
10 Altima 3.5 - 35k - M1 EP 5w30/FU
92 Previa - 160k - Chevron 5w30/Wix

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#2652778 - 06/13/12 03:21 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 1509
Loc: Indiana
Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils.

That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it?

Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?


Edited by Indydriver (06/13/12 03:26 AM)
_________________________
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 10,000 M1
2012 Sienna 50,000 TGMO
2011 Accord V6 50,000 TGMO
2007 Tahoe 90,000 M1
2004 Intrepid 105,000 M1 5W-30

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#2652785 - 06/13/12 03:45 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver]
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 18860
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils.

That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it?

Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?

As of now, Honda/CP and Valvoline Durablend were the only ones with a non-syn 0w-20.

Now Castrol has entered the market in that area.
_________________________
11 Prius - 133k - M1 EP 0w20/OE
07 Accord 2.4 - 112k - M1 5w20/Fram Ultra Filter
10 Altima 3.5 - 35k - M1 EP 5w30/FU
92 Previa - 160k - Chevron 5w30/Wix

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#2652816 - 06/13/12 06:02 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 13904
Loc: Top of Virginia
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?


Castrol already offers a 0W-20 in their Edge line; I've seen it at Advance Auto. I didn't notice the price; it likely carries a huge premium there. If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.
_________________________
Cheers,
Jason

2009 Honda Ridgeline RTL
2005 Acura MDX Touring

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#2652832 - 06/13/12 06:47 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Hokiefyd]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 1509
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.

And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI.

IMHO, 10,000 miles is pushing the envelope for any oil when designers HAVE NO CLUE how the vehicle is driven every day. Now, they are reducing the margin for shear and viscosity deterioration. Some one is going to take this too far.


Edited by Indydriver (06/13/12 06:54 AM)
_________________________
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 10,000 M1
2012 Sienna 50,000 TGMO
2011 Accord V6 50,000 TGMO
2007 Tahoe 90,000 M1
2004 Intrepid 105,000 M1 5W-30

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#2652881 - 06/13/12 07:42 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30206
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Obviously, 0w20 can be blended without needing to use mostly synthetic base stocks


I'm not so sure about this. You do need mostly syn base oils.

From Mobil.com FAQ:

10. Are all 0W-20 viscosity oils synthetics? Yes. The 0W-20 viscosity grade requires synthetic-base oils to meet low-temperature performance standards. >>back


Most if not all 0w20's are synthetic. I am not sure if I believe you can make a 0w20 blend of mostly GrpII+.
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#2652894 - 06/13/12 08:02 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 13904
Loc: Top of Virginia
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI.


Right now, the "cheapest 0W-20 available" is Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20, if by cheapest you mean most inexpensive. Now, if by cheapest you mean the poorest quality, I revert back to my belief that the differences in "synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely in marketing, and anything meeting the 0W-20 specification is going to have very good performance properties.

And for another data point, Hondas are out there doing 10k mile OCIs on conventional 5W-20. I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs.
_________________________
Cheers,
Jason

2009 Honda Ridgeline RTL
2005 Acura MDX Touring

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#2652923 - 06/13/12 08:48 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 10099
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#4 19671mi-Castrol EDGE EP 5W30+Nissan 15208-9E01A Filter
2015 Forester 6MT 5Door, OC#6 41243mi-M1EP 0W20+Subaru Filter

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#2652935 - 06/13/12 09:08 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
DrDusty86 Offline


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 1491
Loc: TX
ARCO- RP AZO....

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#2653015 - 06/13/12 11:04 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 10099
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
I think that's a nyet on the RP for their street oils.
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#4 19671mi-Castrol EDGE EP 5W30+Nissan 15208-9E01A Filter
2015 Forester 6MT 5Door, OC#6 41243mi-M1EP 0W20+Subaru Filter

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#2653037 - 06/13/12 11:42 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: ARCOgraphite]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 1509
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.

Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?


Edited by Indydriver (06/13/12 11:45 AM)
_________________________
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 10,000 M1
2012 Sienna 50,000 TGMO
2011 Accord V6 50,000 TGMO
2007 Tahoe 90,000 M1
2004 Intrepid 105,000 M1 5W-30

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#2653050 - 06/13/12 11:56 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 13973
Loc: Canada
Nice to see another option in the 0W-20 grade.

Castrol now has 3 0W-20's - they have Edge 0W-20, Edge w/SPT (black bottle) 0W-20, and Syntec Blend 0W-20.

However, I doubt we will ever see it up here, we still only have a tiny bit of Edge 0W-20 up here, no mainstream stores carry it.
_________________________
2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto, 89k miles.
MM Supreme 5W-30; QS 14612 filter.

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#2653948 - 06/14/12 08:45 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 10099
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.

Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?
Maybe a marginal cold crank improvement and hopefully a small VI improvement. Otherwise they meet the same spec.
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#4 19671mi-Castrol EDGE EP 5W30+Nissan 15208-9E01A Filter
2015 Forester 6MT 5Door, OC#6 41243mi-M1EP 0W20+Subaru Filter

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#2653967 - 06/14/12 09:02 AM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
05Blazer Offline


Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 348
Loc: Illinois
Hokie

"I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs" (Hokiefyd).

I bet that Peak 0W20 wouldn't make it to a 10kOCI without some significant wear. Have you seen the VOA on that stuff, yuck!
_________________________
12 GMC Yukon SLT 4WD 5.3L 8K
Mobil1 EP 5W30 AC DELCO PF48
11 Honda Pilot EX 4WD 3.5L 20k
Penn Plat 0W20 OEM filter

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#2654580 - 06/14/12 08:19 PM Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic]
ottotheclown Offline


Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 2115
Loc: new york
Me, I face a $80 bill for Subaru syn 0-20 for my 2012 Forester at the stealer. Guess what I am going to do???
_________________________
ottotheclown

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