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#2623847 - 05/11/12 06:35 AM Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically?
irv Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 203
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
I have a 2008 Yamaha Vector (carbed and sump oil system) and I am curious if I should fog it or start it every month?

Last year I started it every month and ran it with occassional track spins for at least ten minutes or until my heat exchangers were hot to the touch and had no issues.

Just wondering if I am doing more harm than good and should I just fog it and be done with it?

If it matters, I am currently running Mobil-1 0W-40 European formula synthetic oil and I change it every spring once the riding season is over regardless of miles.

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#2624784 - 05/12/12 09:00 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
irv Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 203
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
71 views?

Has this question been asked countless times and debated to death or is there no real answer either way?

Also, is it true that synthetic oil sticks to engine components better than Dino oils, and if so, does it matter what type of synthetic oil is used?

My Mobil has a higher ZDDP than a lot of oils, will that help with sticking to metal better?

Thanks

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#2624793 - 05/12/12 09:21 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14561
Loc: Sunny Florida
OK, here's my views. No running it unless you can drive it for at least 20 minutes. Needs to be several minutes AFTER it comes up to temp.

Fogging has never been necessary for me even with jet skis in salt water usage as long as good high quality synthetic is in the sump.
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#2628780 - 05/17/12 12:20 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
Mr_Joe Offline


Registered: 11/16/09
Posts: 347
Loc: Wisconsin
I have a 2006 Yamaha Vector. Last Fall I had a hard time getting it going, this was that 1st start. I plan to run it some every month or so this Summer, I'm due about now.

I also use non-ethanol fuel as much as possible, especially for that last tank fill up. I use a battery tender once a month to keep the battery up. I have Mobile one synthetic in it now. After my experience I'd have to vote you start it once in a while & let it run a bit.

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#2628852 - 05/17/12 06:03 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14561
Loc: Sunny Florida
There is nothing worse for an engine than starting it and 'running it a bit'. This will leave moisture everywhere and contribute to acids forming, etc. If the engine is a plain oil fed bearing motor this causes less problems, but is still a bad idea.

If you have any ball or rollers in there and they get a rust spot on them... kaboom.

If you run it, DRIVE it for 20 minutes minimum.
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#2637414 - 05/27/12 11:25 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: SteveSRT8]
irv Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 203
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
There is nothing worse for an engine than starting it and 'running it a bit'. This will leave moisture everywhere and contribute to acids forming, etc. If the engine is a plain oil fed bearing motor this causes less problems, but is still a bad idea.

If you have any ball or rollers in there and they get a rust spot on them... kaboom.

If you run it, DRIVE it for 20 minutes minimum.


Thanks for the info Steve but at this point due to the mtce I plan on doing to the sled during the summer, I am going to continue starting it at least once a month.

Not disagreeing with you, but after having ran my sled on a run for 100-150k then starting it before my nex ride I always get some moisture out of the exhaust when starting it up to load on the trailer.

So to me, it seems no matter what you do you will always get some moisture?

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#2641769 - 05/31/12 11:35 PM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
propuckstopper Offline


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 53
Loc: MB, Canada
Without a doubt, Steve is 100% correct in his statements. Before your last ride of the season, change the oil and add fuel stabilizer. Take it for a good ride, bring it home and fog it. Then don't touch it again until the snow flies. Engines are designed to be run under load and at proper operating temperature, not at idle in a garage.
_________________________
1965 Pontiac GTO Tri-Power 4-Speed Hardtop (Montero Red)
1968 Pontiac GTO Covertible 400 H.O./Auto (Solar Red)
2000 Lexus ES300
2003 Honda Element AWD

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#2641903 - 06/01/12 07:05 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14561
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
There is nothing worse for an engine than starting it and 'running it a bit'. This will leave moisture everywhere and contribute to acids forming, etc. If the engine is a plain oil fed bearing motor this causes less problems, but is still a bad idea.

If you have any ball or rollers in there and they get a rust spot on them... kaboom.

If you run it, DRIVE it for 20 minutes minimum.


Thanks for the info Steve but at this point due to the mtce I plan on doing to the sled during the summer, I am going to continue starting it at least once a month.

Not disagreeing with you, but after having ran my sled on a run for 100-150k then starting it before my nex ride I always get some moisture out of the exhaust when starting it up to load on the trailer.

So to me, it seems no matter what you do you will always get some moisture?


Irv, the moisture you see coming out of the exhaust is not representative of the moisture inside the crankcase.

Please use care, research this a bit more and you'll get similar advice from a lot of us. I run jet skis in salt water exclusively and also worked for an incredible collector for years who always gave this advice.

It works and will protect your investment!
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#2643257 - 06/02/12 05:06 PM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: propuckstopper]
irv Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 203
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
Without a doubt, Steve is 100% correct in his statements. Before your last ride of the season, change the oil and add fuel stabilizer. Take it for a good ride, bring it home and fog it. Then don't touch it again until the snow flies. Engines are designed to be run under load and at proper operating temperature, not at idle in a garage.



Why do you suggest changing the oil just before it's last ride, would it not be possible to have some acidic property's in it?
I have and countless other's at TY changed their oil AFTER the last ride, not before.

Just a side note, I do not just idle my sled in the garage, I rev it quite frequently to spin the track to help bring it up to temp and let it run at least 10-15 minutes at a time.
The only time it is idling is on initial start up and at the very end of another track spin just before shutting it off for another month.

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#2643263 - 06/02/12 05:13 PM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: SteveSRT8]
irv Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 203
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
There is nothing worse for an engine than starting it and 'running it a bit'. This will leave moisture everywhere and contribute to acids forming, etc. If the engine is a plain oil fed bearing motor this causes less problems, but is still a bad idea.

If you have any ball or rollers in there and they get a rust spot on them... kaboom.

If you run it, DRIVE it for 20 minutes minimum.


Thanks for the info Steve but at this point due to the mtce I plan on doing to the sled during the summer, I am going to continue starting it at least once a month.

Not disagreeing with you, but after having ran my sled on a run for 100-150k then starting it before my nex ride I always get some moisture out of the exhaust when starting it up to load on the trailer.

So to me, it seems no matter what you do you will always get some moisture?


Irv, the moisture you see coming out of the exhaust is not representative of the moisture inside the crankcase.

Please use care, research this a bit more and you'll get similar advice from a lot of us. I run jet skis in salt water exclusively and also worked for an incredible collector for years who always gave this advice.

It works and will protect your investment!

I believe you Steve but I also don't believe it is as bad as what you think it is?
Many at TY and other forums do as I do and have never had issues with thousands of miles on their sleds.

I am reluctant due to the fact this sled is not designed to actually burn oil like a 2 stroke sled is plus like I mentioned earlier, I have some summer mtce to do on it and need to run it occassionaly due to that mtce.

Like I said, I am not doubting you and once I get this mtce done, I will more than likely fog it but I am leery fogging a 4stroke sled that isn't designed to burn oil.
Do I have reason to be concerned?

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#2647304 - 06/07/12 05:54 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
propuckstopper Offline


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 53
Loc: MB, Canada
The reason I say to change the oil before the last ride is this:

The fresh oil will have a good amount of time to circulate throughout the engine at proper load and temperature, which is the exact opposite of what you are doing by starting the engine and revving it in the garage. As an aside, it will also give the fuel stabilizer more than enough opportunity to work its way throughout the entire fuel system.

By taking it out for one last ride with fresh oil, you are hardly contaminating the new oil at all. The benefit is that you are getting it hot and virtually eliminating the moisture content.

You can change the oil after your last ride, and there is nothing wrong with this procedure. However, by changing it after your last ride, you are then going to start it up and rev it in a stationary position without actually driving it. No load, no good.

I will stand by my original advice. A snowmobile is not designed to run on a stand in a garage, with the track turning with no lubrication. I assure you, your method is doing more harm than good. You talk about many guys at the TY forum getting thousands of miles using this method, and that is fine and likely true. But it doesn't mean that it is the correct procedure.

When you say four strokes are not designed to burn oil, a little fogging oil distributed in the cylinders will cause no issue at all. When you fire it six months later, it will smoke for a short while then it is back to business.

Don't start and run any engine unnecessarily. Put it away properly and rest assured it will be ready for reliable service when recommissioned.
_________________________
1965 Pontiac GTO Tri-Power 4-Speed Hardtop (Montero Red)
1968 Pontiac GTO Covertible 400 H.O./Auto (Solar Red)
2000 Lexus ES300
2003 Honda Element AWD

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#2727389 - 08/28/12 08:31 AM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
irv Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 203
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Decided to fog my sled after all the mtce was done.
Funny thing is, in my Yamaha service manual, they don't mention fogging, only dumping some oil down the cylinders and turning the engine over a few times to distribute the oil? (Fogging is easier than this procedure actually)

From the info I gathered, most who said to fog said it was to protect and coat the valves.
I still can't find info whether Yamaha uses stainless valves in these sleds or not, but if one were to go by their summerization procedure, one would think so?

We will see when I fire this sled up in another few months and how hard it is to get it going again will determine if I do this again in the future?

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#2787757 - 10/29/12 11:16 PM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: irv]
propuckstopper Offline


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 53
Loc: MB, Canada
I think you will be pleasantly surprised on how well (quick) it starts when you go to re-commission this sled.

I have done "fogging" two different ways. One way is the Yamaha-recommended method of pouring oil through the spark plug hole. The other way is to spray fogging oil in a running engine.

I believe either method is better than doing nothing at all. However, I have kind of "gravitated" to the running engine method. I just think that you have a better opportunity of coating the valves and the seats thus providing a bit of a "cushion" for storage.
_________________________
1965 Pontiac GTO Tri-Power 4-Speed Hardtop (Montero Red)
1968 Pontiac GTO Covertible 400 H.O./Auto (Solar Red)
2000 Lexus ES300
2003 Honda Element AWD

Top
#2799567 - 11/11/12 07:36 PM Re: Fog 4 stroke Yamaha sled or run it periodically? [Re: propuckstopper]
irv Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 203
Loc: Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted By: propuckstopper
I think you will be pleasantly surprised on how well (quick) it starts when you go to re-commission this sled.
I have done "fogging" two different ways. One way is the Yamaha-recommended method of pouring oil through the spark plug hole. The other way is to spray fogging oil in a running engine.

I believe either method is better than doing nothing at all. However, I have kind of "gravitated" to the running engine method. I just think that you have a better opportunity of coating the valves and the seats thus providing a bit of a "cushion" for storage.

I plan on firing the sled up within a week or 2 so we will see?

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