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#2622158 - 05/09/12 12:13 PM Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice
KenO Offline


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1174
Loc: Auburn, GA
OK, so the truck I just bought has I think some major issues, mostly lack of maintenance, but I think they're fixable. In the past, I've (a couple times) filled the crankcase full of diesel fuel and ran the engine at idle until it was up to temp with an oil pressure gauge installed to monitor pressure to ensure no damage.

On this truck, I'm considering half and half. half full of oil, half full of diesel. Run it, dump it, change filters. Run it with a cheap <$10 per jug oil, dump it and change filter again. Replace oil, install new filter, and go. This truck is a '97 Chevy 2500HD with an unknown mileage Vortec 350 in it. Compression numbers are all over the place, and the top end is full of carbon as well, which I plan to attack with seafoam. I think a majority of the problem is just stuck rings, and I'd like to attack it well now and be done with it. I figure a strong attack to the crankcase while monitoring pressure for a short period of time should do no damage to anything. Thoughts?
_________________________
1995 Volvo 960 ShagginWagon
1995 BMW 328ti
1997 Chevy C2500 5.7l V8
1998 BMW 528i

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#2622168 - 05/09/12 12:22 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 13449
Loc: Canada
Don't do anything too drastic - fresh fill of oil with a quart of MMO in it to start, run that 1-2k, and then do it again, and then go to whatever oil you want to use.

As for the carbon, don't waste $$$ with Seafoam - take off the air cleaner, and 'mist' hot wanter into the intake while revving the engine gently. Feed about a quart throught the engine, it will steam-clean it.
_________________________
2003 Mazda Tribute LX V-6, 176k miles.
Castrol Edge SPT 0W-20; Fram EG2.

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#2622172 - 05/09/12 12:28 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
SuperDave456 Offline


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 2264
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Diesel although oily is not a lubricant. It won't hold up well when the engine is up to temp, and although it may have worked for you in the past I would be worried about unnecessary wear.

I'd take off the valve covers and take a look. Clean up what I could, do a piston soak while you are at it, and after letting the pistons sit a few days. Then go get a 10w40 High Mileage oil and run it for 500 miles. I'm starting to like the 10w40 High Mileage oils out there due to their abundance of additives compared to their 10w30 brethren.
Then another 500 mile OCI. Then go to 1000 miles, another 100 mile OCI.
What you want is SLOW. If a big piece breaks off and clogs an oil passage the engine will be a goner.

It would be best to drop the oil pan and clean it out and the oil pick up, but I have no idea what that entails and it could be a MAJOR project.

It would be 4 or 5 oil changes into the short OCI routine before I even thought of MMO in the oil.

If you want to go FAST. Look into Kreen in the Additives section. A bunch of people are having good results from it.

The idea of putting diesel in a gasoline engine scares me. Much less putting it in the crank case.

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#2622174 - 05/09/12 12:33 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
SrDriver Offline


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 2500
Loc: Southeast Alabama
I vote too for 20% MMO and your favorite brand of oil. Do this a couple of times.

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#2622175 - 05/09/12 12:34 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
Rob_Roy Offline


Registered: 10/26/08
Posts: 847
Loc: Northern, NY
Sounds like a good candidate for Kreen.
_________________________
2014 Subaru Outback
2012 Subaru Legacy
1999 Ford F350, V10 workhorse

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#2622181 - 05/09/12 12:42 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: addyguy]
Bgallagher Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 1304
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Don't do anything too drastic - fresh fill of oil with a quart of MMO in it to start, run that 1-2k, and then do it again, and then go to whatever oil you want to use.

As for the carbon, don't waste $$$ with Seafoam - take off the air cleaner, and 'mist' hot wanter into the intake while revving the engine gently. Feed about a quart throught the engine, it will steam-clean it.


+1 Water is the old school way of doing it. Still works now and is a great candidate for your 350
_________________________
2005 Chevy Equinox - 125k - M1HM and AC PF52 (non e-core)
2005 Chevy Malibu - 145k - Valv. Maxlife and Purolator L15436

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#2622182 - 05/09/12 12:45 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: Rob_Roy]
JosephHarmon Offline


Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 244
Loc: Eagan, Mn
As the sludge/deposits dissolve the oil gets ruined with contaminates.

Buy cheap oil and change often through out this cleaner additive process.


Edited by JosephHarmon (05/09/12 12:48 PM)

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#2622199 - 05/09/12 01:10 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: Bgallagher]
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12952
Loc: By Detroit
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher

+1 Water is the old school way of doing it. Still works now and is a great candidate for your 350


Yes, but get the engine good and hot, a 20 mile highway trip would work, then when you pour in the water keep the rpms up high like 4000 or more and pour slowly so you dont hydrolock a piston and destroy the engine. I did this on a '92 Aerostar 3.0 once and after I got done pouring a pint or two of water through, the whole area around the van smelt like spent firecrackers. Oh, and after the water treatment, why not do an Italian Tuneup, which is simply to run it on the freeway in a lower gear so it is turning 4000 or more rpm for 5 or 10 miles.

As for the crankcase, MMO 20% with low cost oil, maybe several changes. Just how bad is the crankcase anyway? Did you drip hot oil on a file card to see what the soaked in blot looks like? Photos please.
_________________________
You're not a real gear head unless you love the smell of used motor oil.

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#2622208 - 05/09/12 01:22 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: TallPaul]
KenO Offline


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1174
Loc: Auburn, GA
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher

+1 Water is the old school way of doing it. Still works now and is a great candidate for your 350


Yes, but get the engine good and hot, a 20 mile highway trip would work, then when you pour in the water keep the rpms up high like 4000 or more and pour slowly so you dont hydrolock a piston and destroy the engine. I did this on a '92 Aerostar 3.0 once and after I got done pouring a pint or two of water through, the whole area around the van smelt like spent firecrackers. Oh, and after the water treatment, why not do an Italian Tuneup, which is simply to run it on the freeway in a lower gear so it is turning 4000 or more rpm for 5 or 10 miles.

As for the crankcase, MMO 20% with low cost oil, maybe several changes. Just how bad is the crankcase anyway? Did you drip hot oil on a file card to see what the soaked in blot looks like? Photos please.



You do the water trick with a mister, like an old (clean) Windex bottle.


And this is the condition of the motor. The plugs are [censored], carbon and blowbye contaminated. Combine that with the goofy compression numbers, my bet is the rings are just stuck as [censored] from lack of maintenance. It was about 2 quarts low on oil when I got it.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/gener...elp-needed.html


Edited by KenO (05/09/12 01:25 PM)
_________________________
1995 Volvo 960 ShagginWagon
1995 BMW 328ti
1997 Chevy C2500 5.7l V8
1998 BMW 528i

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#2622221 - 05/09/12 01:34 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: SuperDave456]
sunfire Offline


Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1574
Loc: Ca, US
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Diesel although oily is not a lubricant. It won't hold up well when the engine is up to temp, and although it may have worked for you in the past I would be worried about unnecessary wear.

I'd take off the valve covers and take a look. Clean up what I could, do a piston soak while you are at it, and after letting the pistons sit a few days.

Diesel may lower the flash point enough for the engine to catch fire in a worst case scenario. After cleaning the top, drop the oil pan and clean what you can there. It's impossible to manually clean all of the little oil passages inside the engine. The crank, cam shafts, pistons just to name a few all have oil passages too. You'll need a good oil additive and high detergent oil or maybe even an HDEO for that.


Edited by sunfire (05/09/12 01:47 PM)
_________________________
2005 Toyota Corolla LE | 65,000 | PYB 5W-30

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#2622258 - 05/09/12 02:03 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 11736
Loc: apple valley, ca
I also don't think that 100% Diesel fiel was a good idea.why did you buy the truck in this condition?
_________________________
02 Wrangler qsgb 5w30
87 F250 Diesel Mag1 5w40
04 Tahoe super-s 5w30
Z400 maxima 20w50
KLR250 Maxima 10w40
Polaris Trailblazer delo 5w40

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#2622259 - 05/09/12 02:04 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21691
Loc: NY
Kreen or MMO, I'd pass on the diesel fuel.
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#2622271 - 05/09/12 02:12 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: Rob_Roy]
Russell Offline


Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 2136
Loc: Lexington, KY
Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
Sounds like a good candidate for Kreen.


Yes it does.
_________________________
Russell Casey
1995 BMW 525i M50TU 2.5L-6, abt 235K miles. Rebuilt trany.
1998 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer 153k miles, 4L-SOHC V6. timing chains replaced

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#2622274 - 05/09/12 02:14 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: SuperDave456]
JGW Offline


Registered: 02/23/12
Posts: 223
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Diesel although oily is not a lubricant. It won't hold up well when the engine is up to temp, and although it may have worked for you in the past I would be worried about unnecessary wear.

I'd take off the valve covers and take a look. Clean up what I could, do a piston soak while you are at it, and after letting the pistons sit a few days. Then go get a 10w40 High Mileage oil and run it for 500 miles. I'm starting to like the 10w40 High Mileage oils out there due to their abundance of additives compared to their 10w30 brethren.
Then another 500 mile OCI. Then go to 1000 miles, another 100 mile OCI.
What you want is SLOW. If a big piece breaks off and clogs an oil passage the engine will be a goner.

It would be best to drop the oil pan and clean it out and the oil pick up, but I have no idea what that entails and it could be a MAJOR project.

It would be 4 or 5 oil changes into the short OCI routine before I even thought of MMO in the oil.

If you want to go FAST. Look into Kreen in the Additives section. A bunch of people are having good results from it.

The idea of putting diesel in a gasoline engine scares me. Much less putting it in the crank case.


Listen to this guy.
_________________________
2002 Jetta TDI. 203k RT
2011 Toyota Matrix 29k
1998 Chevy Tahoe 290k M1
1985 Fiat Spider 34k
1984 Nissan Turbo 300ZX UD

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#2622283 - 05/09/12 02:23 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14767
Loc: Iowegia
Another option is 30% LC20 and 70% PYB.

But don't loose sight of the fact that none of these options will bring it back to factory specs; you may still have to re-ring and re-bearing the short block, and have the heads reworked.


Edited by MolaKule (05/09/12 02:27 PM)
_________________________
"Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution, is called Whining." Teddy Roosevelt smile

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#2622284 - 05/09/12 02:23 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
OpelFever Offline


Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 143
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: KenO
OK, so the truck I just bought has I think some major issues, mostly lack of maintenance, but I think they're fixable. In the past, I've (a couple times) filled the crankcase full of diesel fuel and ran the engine at idle until it was up to temp with an oil pressure gauge installed to monitor pressure to ensure no damage.

On this truck, I'm considering half and half. half full of oil, half full of diesel. Run it, dump it, change filters. Run it with a cheap <$10 per jug oil, dump it and change filter again. Replace oil, install new filter, and go. This truck is a '97 Chevy 2500HD with an unknown mileage Vortec 350 in it. Compression numbers are all over the place, and the top end is full of carbon as well, which I plan to attack with seafoam. I think a majority of the problem is just stuck rings, and I'd like to attack it well now and be done with it. I figure a strong attack to the crankcase while monitoring pressure for a short period of time should do no damage to anything. Thoughts?


I would do this, and will if I ever get my hands on a sludgy beater. It's cheaper and quicker than playing around with different oils and fancy additives.
_________________________
2000 Toyota Corolla 1.6 VVT-i (Mobil 1 0w-40)
1984 Honda CRX 1.5 (Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40)

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#2622348 - 05/09/12 03:31 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: OpelFever]
Jeff_in_VABch Offline


Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Virginia
I would just drive the thing.

I perfectly clean worn out engine is still a worn out engine.

If you do "clean" it, go aggressive, if it goes, it goes.
_________________________
Interests - motorsports/engine building/tuning
Background - Performed work at refineries and several oil blending plants.
Occupation - Mech Engr

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#2622355 - 05/09/12 03:44 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3673
Loc: New England
If it were me, I'd change the oil and drive it. There are plenty of people who drive plenty of miles on cars they had no idea required periodic maintenance. If the motor is on its last leg, doing something as drastic as you plan may be enough to put it over the edge. I'd rather have an ok-running engine than an engine with a spun bearing and sparklies on my dipstick.

If you can, please post up your results. I'm very interested in seeing some before/after pics. Speaking of before pics...
_________________________
14 Forester XT
GC 0W-30 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#2622526 - 05/09/12 07:02 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: gathermewool]
Oil_Flunky Offline


Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Michigan
If you're pulling plugs you might as well do a piston soak. Kreen works really well, a couple ounces per cylinder should work good on a 350, add some Kroil for good measure as they have a deal going on right now for both. Soak for a few days if you can, turning the crankshaft clockwise a quarter turn every twelve hours or whenever you feel like it. Don't go too crazy with the amount of liquid and hydro lock the engine. Cranking with the plugs out works with rags to catch the solvent. After soaking get the engine up to temperature and dump the oil.

Advance has 10w30 Rotella Diesel on sale this month as well as Pure One oil filters. Buy a few jugs and filters and have at it with the Kreen.

From my experience after cutting open filters from high mileage vehicles with unknown maintenance, while initially dosing with Kreen in the oil at 3 Oz per quart; change out the first filter at 250 miles the second at 750 then back to normal.

Always keep an eye on things and when in doubt change it out.
_________________________
Oil, you need it. Oil snobbery, you don't need it.

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#2622660 - 05/09/12 09:24 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
yonyon Offline


Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 3492
Loc: NJ, USA
If you're willing to try one of my Crazy Ideas(TM) you could try this:

Change the oil, then fill up the gas tank. Crush up two napthalene type moth balls and wrap them up but good in coffee filter paper. Let the engine cool for a couple of hours. Get some wire or what ever and attach the package of moth balls in coffee filter paper to the bottom of the oil fill cap or any place you can be sure it will be exposed to the air inside the crankcase. Start the engine and let it idle for a good 12 hours or so. This truck is new-to-you, so check the temperature gauge frequently during the first hour. Remove the package and then change the oil again. Even if I really am as crazy as I know I am, all you really lost was a little fuel, an oil change, two moth balls, and a coffee filter. Oh yeah, do this outdoors.

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#2623054 - 05/10/12 12:24 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12952
Loc: By Detroit
Here is what NOT TO DO.

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#2623281 - 05/10/12 03:51 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: TallPaul]
JGW Offline


Registered: 02/23/12
Posts: 223
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Here is what NOT TO DO.


Rofl!!!
_________________________
2002 Jetta TDI. 203k RT
2011 Toyota Matrix 29k
1998 Chevy Tahoe 290k M1
1985 Fiat Spider 34k
1984 Nissan Turbo 300ZX UD

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#2623605 - 05/10/12 09:17 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
TC Offline


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 1638
Loc: California
FYI, Gunk Motor Flush and K&W Motor Flush are composed of 60% - 100% diesel fuel per the MSDSs, so there's plenty of precedent for using diesel "safely" in crankcases for cleaning purposes. But that's as a temporary oil ADDITIVE, rather than as a 100% lube itself! Diesel is also used in at least a few "fuel system/injector cleaners," including CRC Fuel Injector Cleaner (>95% diesel), so it's also "safe" to add to gasoline tanks, but perhaps at 12 oz at a time. I'm not judging the effectiveness of either application, but simply mentioning that diesel in limited quantities is "safe" for both crankcases and gas tanks. (There's no absolute safety when using such chemicals...hence the quotes.)

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#2623650 - 05/10/12 09:58 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5196
Loc: FreelanceRoverRogerRabbit
Use kreen, idle it for a bit, change that oil filter often. don't use an idle flush until a few OCIs of maintenance cleansing/shorter intervals with something like kreen.
_________________________
1992 Civic VX 285k+
Waiting on winter OCI to sample first time post-HG job 18 months ago..

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#2623901 - 05/11/12 08:07 AM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: JGW]
sdowney717 Offline


Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 236
Loc: Newport News, VA
should have run it on dish soap and water to make it slippery.

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#2624131 - 05/11/12 12:27 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
bigmike Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 3239
Loc: Florida
Frequent oil changes with 5w40 or 15w40 HDEO with MMO, bottle of redline fuel cleaner and clean the throttle body with some intake cleaner would be my suggestions.
_________________________
Take care,
-Mike

2006 Chevy Silverado LT 4.8 - QS 5w30, Napa Gold
2009 Honda Accord LX-P 2.4 - QS UD 0w20, P1 14610

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#2624204 - 05/11/12 01:31 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: KenO]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5196
Loc: FreelanceRoverRogerRabbit
^This COA would also do some good, true.
_________________________
1992 Civic VX 285k+
Waiting on winter OCI to sample first time post-HG job 18 months ago..

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#2624215 - 05/11/12 01:39 PM Re: Need quick/harsh crankcase cleanse advice [Re: JGW]
Bgallagher Offline


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 1304
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: JGW
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Here is what NOT TO DO.


Rofl!!!





THAT........WAS...........AWESOME...........
_________________________
2005 Chevy Equinox - 125k - M1HM and AC PF52 (non e-core)
2005 Chevy Malibu - 145k - Valv. Maxlife and Purolator L15436

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