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#2595673 - 04/10/12 03:16 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: Pop_Rivit]
bigmike Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 3239
Loc: Florida
If wages in China become high enough, manufacturing will come back to the US. It's already happening!

RATO engine manufacturers are opening up a plant in North Carolina, for instance. Of course, we could name hundreds of examples for other foreign entities doing this as well.
_________________________
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#2595902 - 04/10/12 07:40 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: bigmike]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
The only problem is these jobs come back often at $8-12 hour and little to no benefits and could be gone tomorrow. That's what it takes to compete with chinese labor. American worker competing with china for products sold primarily in the US. It just doesn't seem right.

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#2596489 - 04/11/12 11:40 AM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: mechanicx]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10468
Loc: Las Vegas NV
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The only problem is these jobs come back often at $8-12 hour and little to no benefits and could be gone tomorrow. That's what it takes to compete with chinese labor. American worker competing with china for products sold primarily in the US. It just doesn't seem right.

As opposed to what?

Precisely what should manufacturing jobs be paying? Based on what?
_________________________
“Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.” --- Henry Rosovsky

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#2596647 - 04/11/12 02:26 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: mechanicx]
jcwit Offline


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2838
Loc: no. indiana
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The only problem is these jobs come back often at $8-12 hour and little to no benefits and could be gone tomorrow. That's what it takes to compete with chinese labor. American worker competing with china for products sold primarily in the US. It just doesn't seem right.


So the folks should continue on welfare and unemployment? That would be better in your mind?

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#2596666 - 04/11/12 02:47 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: jcwit]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26419
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The only problem is these jobs come back often at $8-12 hour and little to no benefits and could be gone tomorrow. That's what it takes to compete with chinese labor. American worker competing with china for products sold primarily in the US. It just doesn't seem right.


So the folks should continue on welfare and unemployment? That would be better in your mind?


I'm quite sure he's implying that China's standard of living isn't going to simply rise up to meet that of what it is currently in the USA.

Rather what we end up with is China rising and the US falling and them reaching some sort of equilibrium in the middle with the middle class in the US never being as healthy as it once was. Overall wages will be lower across the board and the quality of life enjoyed by the majority in your nation will never be as good again either.

If the cost of living in the USA continues to climb, but the average hourly wage for manufacturing work slides down to the $9-12/hour range to compete with China, is this "livable", or is that simply the definition of the working poor? What quality of life can somebody making those wages expect to "enjoy" for the rest of their life in the "land of opportunity"?
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#2596708 - 04/11/12 03:37 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: Tempest]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The only problem is these jobs come back often at $8-12 hour and little to no benefits and could be gone tomorrow. That's what it takes to compete with chinese labor. American worker competing with china for products sold primarily in the US. It just doesn't seem right.

As opposed to what?

Precisely what should manufacturing jobs be paying? Based on what?


The US market wages they were making previously before outsourcing and purposely bringing in foreign workers to drive wages down duh.

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#2596712 - 04/11/12 03:41 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: jcwit]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The only problem is these jobs come back often at $8-12 hour and little to no benefits and could be gone tomorrow. That's what it takes to compete with chinese labor. American worker competing with china for products sold primarily in the US. It just doesn't seem right.


So the folks should continue on welfare and unemployment? That would be better in your mind?


You are the king of false dichotomies. Better in my mind is less outsourcing/unfair trade agreements/hiring foreign workers that are eliminating jobs and driving down wages (and eroding the tax base) in the first place. And also what Overk1ll said.

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#2596816 - 04/11/12 05:13 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: Pop_Rivit]
jcwit Offline


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2838
Loc: no. indiana
Well this has not been the case here in No. Indiana with the RV Industry. Line workers tend to bring home in the neighborhood of $900 to $1200 per week, plus benifits.

Hey! I'm the King of something at last! Bout time! WooHoo!

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#2596833 - 04/11/12 05:25 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: mechanicx]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10468
Loc: Las Vegas NV
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

The US market wages they were making previously before outsourcing and purposely bringing in foreign workers to drive wages down duh.

Which was what? Unless you can produce real numbers, your "argument" is nothing but vapor and conjecture.

And why do you think "market wages" should be fixed or continually growing?
_________________________
“Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.” --- Henry Rosovsky

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#2596836 - 04/11/12 05:27 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: OVERKILL]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10468
Loc: Las Vegas NV
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

I'm quite sure he's implying that China's standard of living isn't going to simply rise up to meet that of what it is currently in the USA.

Rather what we end up with is China rising and the US falling and them reaching some sort of equilibrium in the middle with the middle class in the US never being as healthy as it once was. Overall wages will be lower across the board and the quality of life enjoyed by the majority in your nation will never be as good again either.

If the cost of living in the USA continues to climb, but the average hourly wage for manufacturing work slides down to the $9-12/hour range to compete with China, is this "livable", or is that simply the definition of the working poor? What quality of life can somebody making those wages expect to "enjoy" for the rest of their life in the "land of opportunity"?

Can you show ANYTHING substantial to back up what you are saying? It's all pure conjecture so far.
_________________________
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#2596845 - 04/11/12 05:32 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: Tempest]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10468
Loc: Las Vegas NV
One other pesky fact is that the foreign trade numbers include:
Quote:
Data are goods only, on a Census Basis, in billions of dollars, unrevised.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/toppartners.html

So services that we provide to other countries, IS NOT INCLUDED in the numbers that the "news" media likes to plaster everywhere.

So the "trade imbalance" isn't really a true measure of anything.

A very good article with actual facts showing how it's not a factor:
http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2007/01/17/trade_deficits_good_or_bad/page/full/


Edited by Tempest (04/11/12 05:37 PM)
_________________________
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#2596868 - 04/11/12 05:45 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: Tempest]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26419
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

I'm quite sure he's implying that China's standard of living isn't going to simply rise up to meet that of what it is currently in the USA.

Rather what we end up with is China rising and the US falling and them reaching some sort of equilibrium in the middle with the middle class in the US never being as healthy as it once was. Overall wages will be lower across the board and the quality of life enjoyed by the majority in your nation will never be as good again either.

If the cost of living in the USA continues to climb, but the average hourly wage for manufacturing work slides down to the $9-12/hour range to compete with China, is this "livable", or is that simply the definition of the working poor? What quality of life can somebody making those wages expect to "enjoy" for the rest of their life in the "land of opportunity"?

Can you show ANYTHING substantial to back up what you are saying? It's all pure conjecture so far.


So your growing US debt by over a trillion a year, soaring unemployment and everything in stores being labelled as "made in China" isn't substantial?

Gotcha.
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#2597284 - 04/12/12 12:32 AM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: OVERKILL]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9959
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Quote:
I'm quite sure he's implying that China's standard of living isn't going to simply rise up to meet that of what it is currently in the USA.

Rather what we end up with is China rising and the US falling and them reaching some sort of equilibrium in the middle with the middle class in the US never being as healthy as it once was. Overall wages will be lower across the board and the quality of life enjoyed by the majority in your nation will never be as good again either.

If the cost of living in the USA continues to climb, but the average hourly wage for manufacturing work slides down to the $9-12/hour range to compete with China, is this "livable", or is that simply the definition of the working poor? What quality of life can somebody making those wages expect to "enjoy" for the rest of their life in the "land of opportunity"?


Voted as the best post in this whole thread!
Truer words have not been put down IMO.
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#2597365 - 04/12/12 06:46 AM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: OVERKILL]
jcwit Offline


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2838
Loc: no. indiana
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
If the cost of living in the USA continues to climb, but the average hourly wage for manufacturing work slides down to the $9-12/hour range to compete with China, is this "livable", or is that simply the definition of the working poor? What quality of life can somebody making those wages expect to "enjoy" for the rest of their life in the "land of opportunity"?


So then its time those that are unsatisified with $9 to $12 hour wage, advance their education and better themselves. No reason to continue in the lower wage bracket, unless of course they have no will to better themselves.

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#2598088 - 04/12/12 09:07 PM Re: Harbor Freight Tools [Re: jcwit]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26419
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
If the cost of living in the USA continues to climb, but the average hourly wage for manufacturing work slides down to the $9-12/hour range to compete with China, is this "livable", or is that simply the definition of the working poor? What quality of life can somebody making those wages expect to "enjoy" for the rest of their life in the "land of opportunity"?


So then its time those that are unsatisified with $9 to $12 hour wage, advance their education and better themselves. No reason to continue in the lower wage bracket, unless of course they have no will to better themselves.


Right, and everybody is equal.

Sir, there are people that can work in a manufacturing plant, work WELL in a manufacturing plant and do a DARN GOOD JOB, but they are never going to be a rocket scientist, carry a PhD, or even a University degree.

Having everybody in management means there is nobody to manage.

Contrary to what is peddled to us in school when we are young, we are not all cut from the same cloth and certain people are better at certain things than others. Often significantly better.

We all find our niche and if that niche is working in a Snap-On plant making ratchets and doing a darn good job of it, that person deserves to be earning a wage that is adequate enough to feed and cloth their family, provide them a modest place to live and afford them reliable transportation. That means that they need to be earning more than $9.00 or $12.00 an hour.
_________________________
Network Engineer
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