John Deere Lawn Tractors -New Vs. Old

[DockHoliday]

I am looking to get my first lawn tractor (well, not counting the 3 wheel Swisher Ride King we had when I was a kid). Looking for used. I am so confused by the prices.

Note: I am not looking for one of the lessor models sold by he big box stores.

There is a well cared for 1983 318 for sale for $2,000 and a 2007 X304 (4 wheel steer) for $2,200. In researching, both prices appear to be typical for these models in good shape.

How does this even make sense? Are the older models that much better?

 

[Rand]

older models are a lawn and garden tractor.
they accept a full line of accessories and are built like tanks..so yes.

 

[DockHoliday]

The newer models can still take a full array of attachments.

The new ones have plastic hoods, but that does not bother me as the hood is not a stressed part. Wondering if the newer drive trains and frames are less sturdy/capable than the older ones? It looks like Deere used to use Onan and Kohler, but now uses Kawakski. Is there a difference in quality/expense there?

 

[BigCahuna]

Last week I was reading consumer reports lawn equipment issue. The didn't give John Deere product very high marks. Was an interesting read. Anyone thinking about buying new gear should look it over.,,

 

[jetmech1]

Quote:
How does this even make sense? Are the older models that much better?


How much yard are you mowing?

You might as well as buy an MTD or Yardman as to get a Big Box JD. I've been taking care of my neighbors LA 145. Cheap Cheap Cheap! All it got is basically a Briggs Intek engine and a K46 Tuff Torq hydrostat (non-servicable). It now has 201 hrs and probably won't make it through the summer. I had to replace almost every moving part on it already.

Go to this website and read for yourself: Complaints John Deere

I just "bit the bullet" myself and spent the money for the diesel powered Kubota. Depending on how much you are mowing, they also make a gas powered lawn tractor.

Bottom line is that the newer John Deere's can't hold a candle against the old.

 

[Tdbo]

One thing that Deers do well is hold their resale. This is partially created by the strength of the product itself, but added to by the dealer network available as well as internet resources to support the line.
The 318 is one of their most popular tractors. Many people buy and rebuild these units, thus the demand increases the value.
I have owned two Deers: a 1996 STX-38 w/an 11 horse Kohler and presently have a 2007 X300 w/a 18 horse Kawasaki. Both have been excellent tractors and the Kawasaki is just an all around sweet engine. I overbought a tractor because 1) I really liked that engine and 2)IMO, anymore, the X300 is the lowest entry point to get the true quality that Deere has traditionally represented.
As for the box store Deers, you are IMO correct to stay away from those. They are not bad for what they are, but you can do as well elsewhere (Craftsman, Cub, MTD to name a few and probably save some $ in the process.)
There is no real difference in expense between the Kohler/Kawasaki engines in comparison. There is a difference in expense between owning a Deere and some other types of tractors, just like there is a difference in expense between owning a Toyota and a Lexus. However, the longevity factor and support make it worthwhile.

Also, if you haven't already you may want to check on this site for more info. There are many Deere people on there and they are a wealth of information:
http://www.mytractorforum.com/

 

[DockHoliday]

I have 1 acre with lots of obstacles. However, I have another 1.3 acres that will need mowing once I get it cleared of the brush.

I know the JD models at the big box stores are not the same,but I was expecting that the models sold by the JD dealers, such as the X series, would be of higher quality. Am I mistaken on this?

 

[jetmech1]

Quote:
Am I mistaken on this?


Had to re-log on again!

Yes and no. They are marginally better IMO. But not enough to qualify the expense. As much as I support buying Amercian goods, JD seems to have developed a snobbish attitude where they feel they can throw out inferior goods and keep their once deserved reputation. It's really sad too. Please read through that link I posted. Over 20 pages of complaints and they are legitimate ones too.

 

[Rob_Roy]

How many hours are on the 318? We had one for 20 years and it was still a nice tractor when we traded it for a zero turn.

 

[Rand]

Find a good deal on a 316 318 or some of the 400 series

if something ever does go there is a huge business on used and new parts so its easy to replace anything you want to.

Just make sure you know what you are buying.. sometimes people sell the older ones instead of putting in a new engine.

While they are easily repowered.. you shouldnt be paying as much if you have to drop an engine in it soon.

We have a jd316 that mowed 20 acres for 10 years. Now it mows about 5acres once every 2-3 weeks for last 8 years.

It gets new oil 1-2 times a year and new transmission fluid every 2-3 years. This is the model that.

It has needed some tires due to thorns.. new deck spindle bearings, some stuff welded from hitting tree stumps
(part of the acreage is forest)
It just pretty much keeps on going. It is getting tired but I expect another 3-5 years out of it.

Have another jd318 bought used.. its been a relative dud. It needs pulled apart and about 500$ worth of parts put in.

Oh and one more thing the jd316 has been heavily abused.. with logging etc on the farm.

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: DockHoliday
I have 1 acre with lots of obstacles. However, I have another 1.3 acres that will need mowing once I get it cleared of the brush.

I know the JD models at the big box stores are not the same,but I was expecting that the models sold by the JD dealers, such as the X series, would be of higher quality. Am I mistaken on this?


The real issue here is that John Deere felt they had to compete with the MTD's and the consumer grade market, thus they started out with the Sabre series "by John Deere", which all in all, weren't really bad tractors. The words "by John Deere" did not create unrealistic expectations and one could easily differentiate between the two. It got them into the big box stores and gave them some market saturation.

This then evolved into the LA and now the L series which IMO was a huge mistake. These are sold at both the big box stores AND at JD dealers. As has been noted, one can get on the consumer complaint site of their choice and read horror story after horror story. JD created all kind of unrealistic expectations when they painted up little MTD quality tractors to look like John Deere's and people started buying them up thinking they were the real thing. They aren't. I kind of liken it to Toyota buying up a bunch of Yugo's and sticking Lexus badges on them and giving them to Toyota Dealerships to sell.

Before I would buy a JD big box, I would buy an MTD. MTD is the finest of the "disposable" tractors and they are cheaper than the corresponding JD. If one wants quality, they have to go up in the JD line. The lowest series to do so is the X series. If I were buying new now, I wouldn't look any less than the X310.

 

[HM12460]

My 1985 John Deere 210 will NEVER die, and will out pull my neighbor's 20+ horse power Craftsman with ease. I think your best bet is to buy an older model and do a thorough reconditioning of it, and never look back. The older John Deere, Cub Cadet, Wheel Horse , and Simplicity models are pretty tough machine's. I also tend to avoid models with the Kohler KT-17 series 1 or models with an Onan engine.

 

[DockHoliday]

Originally Posted By: HM12460
I also tend to avoid models with the Kohler KT-17 series 1 or models with an Onan engine.


What is the issue with Onan? The 318 I was looking at has an Onan.

 

[01rangerxl]

Old Deeres = collectible = high prices.

Also, they don't fall completely apart like a MTD or Murray will after 10 years, so they still have a lot of usable life left even in old age (if cared for).

 

[DockHoliday]

Great info guys!

I get it now. I did not realize how bad the L series are. Very sad.

Would a well maintained 1998 GT 275 be a good product?

 

[4Kings]

Originally Posted By: jetmech1
diesel powered Kubota


best advice yet... I've got a 11 year old Kubota BX that runs great. The things sips fuel. I mow a little less than 2 acres.

My neighbor has a Deere X5xx series and I can mow my property twice for same amount of gasoline he uses.

You may have to hunt for a used unit as folks that have them never seem to give them up.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

I think there are a few different reasons why Deere equipment holds its value so well. John Deere is one of the few brands that has maintained its brand identity for nearly a century; other brands seem to pass through different owner every year or two. Even names like Bolens or Cub Cadet are watered down versions of their original brand.

John Deere has a parts network that is second to none. I can still get any part for my 1974 210 from my dealer, my father in law can get any part for his 1965 4020. Try getting a part for most other brands that are more than a few years old and you'll have difficulty finding them. Many parts are simply impossible to find.

The dealer with whom I've dealt for the last 40 years is still in business, and their level of service has always been outstanding. If there is a problem they have professional mechanics that work on the equipment and the turn around is fast. They also have loaner equipment-if my 757 ever needs work that will take more than a couple days I'll get a free loaner. Again, you don't get that with other brands.

While I understand the business logic that Deere used in creating a brand that meets the same price point as the "big box store" brands, it's important to remember that they're engineered to a price point, while most of the equipment available at a real Deere dealer is engineered to a performance specification. A homeowner with a small, level yard will do ok with a big box model. But if you have any special requirements, it’s wise to speak with a dealer who can fit you with the appropriate equipment for your needs.

Some dealers have “program” equipment available. When I purchased my 325 in 1994 or 1995 it was a program tractor that had been used by management at one of the plants to drive from building to building. It only had a few hours on it when I purchased it, it came with a new mower deck, had been completely serviced and the price was about 30% less than the same thing new.

Originally Posted By: DockHoliday
Great info guys!

I get it now. I did not realize how bad the L series are. Very sad.

Would a well maintained 1998 GT 275 be a good product?


It's not so much that the L series were bad, they were just on par with lawn mowers at a similar price point, and their durability reflected that.

The GT series were a solid garden tractor, and if it's in good condition it's a good value. Like any other piece of used equipment it can either be abused or maintained, and it's often hard to tell the difference. When the (somewhat abused) engine in my 325 finally failed after about 1500 hours, I sold it for more than most other brands sell for when they're running. I noticed one for sale a couple weeks ago for $3,100-I paid just over that when I purchased mine almost new.

That's how well most Deere equipment holds its value.

 

[Rand]

some onans are better than others.

If it runs perfect while cold and while hot.. and while under load it should be fine.

both of mine have onans. One has been incredible.

one is a mystery p.o.s. that I'm still tracking problems down on. Right now it has a wierd overheat issue, a power steering leak, and a starter problem. But I've pretty much found out the guy we got it off of was a crook

avoid early 17hp kohlers they had oiling issues that destroyed the engines.. regardless of maintenance.

JD's fall into 3 categories

1)mint garage queen
2)working good condition
3)POS they are getting rid of instead of fixing.

make sure you know which you are buying and pay accordingly.

316 is a 318 without the front hydraulics basically.

400series are beast but cost more.

 

[gman2304]

I have a 1964 John Deere 110 that I mowed with 2 weeks ago! I also have a 1998 JD LX 188 I bought new in August of 98. I traded in a Honda 3813 on the LX 188. The LX188 has been the best riding mower I have ever owned, period. The only repair I have had was a hydro fan blade that the center had wallowed out from pulling a Cyclone Rake about 5 years ago. Less than $100.00 in 14 years on repairs! They're are a lot of good machines out there, but I'm afraid you will have to go to a dealer and bite the bullet or find a good used machine. You might get lucky and get a good LT at Lowes or Home Depot, but the odds are probably against you. Good luck,Gman

 

[jetmech1]

Quote:
You may have to hunt for a used unit as folks that have them never seem to give them up


You got that right. Dog gone near impossible. I searched for over 4 months. The good pre-owned ones were only about 25-30% less than a new one. So, I just bought a new one. I've never seen anything hold it's valus so well.

BX-2360, 60inch deck, FEL, and box scrapper and lovin" it.