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#2568817 - 03/15/12 08:26 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: pjf]
Dakir Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 63
Loc: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: pjf
Originally Posted By: mauric3
I was just wondering what would be the best oil filter to use with synthetic oil for a 10k km OCI max?

Thanks!

MicroGreen (http://www.microgreenfilter.com/) claims to be able to filter 2-micron particles. At least one member of this forum has tested his oil and found fewer particles in his used oil. His results are posted here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2359966


$30 for an oil filter is almost unbelievable.
_________________________
2006 Infiniti G35 Sedan (VQ35DE) bone stock
52k miles
5w-30 Castrol GTX

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#2568855 - 03/15/12 08:53 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: mauric3]
elgallo Offline


Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 19
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Quote:
Fram Extended Guard.

(Oh yes, I said it.)


+1. Also Bosch D+, Mobil 1, Wix...

By the way, having used the "Orange Can of Death" for hundreds of thousands of miles (changed every 3,000 miles), I'll have to state that the perceived risk of using the low end Fram filter is much over stated!!!

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#2569018 - 03/16/12 12:02 AM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Dakir]
Hannibal Offline


Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 65
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Dakir
Originally Posted By: pjf
Originally Posted By: mauric3
I was just wondering what would be the best oil filter to use with synthetic oil for a 10k km OCI max?

Thanks!

MicroGreen (http://www.microgreenfilter.com/) claims to be able to filter 2-micron particles. At least one member of this forum has tested his oil and found fewer particles in his used oil. His results are posted here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2359966


$30 for an oil filter is almost unbelievable.


It's a 2 pack though. So it's more like $15 each.

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#2569274 - 03/16/12 09:14 AM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Hannibal]
pjf Offline


Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Colorado
I've just received a $30 box of two microGreen filters. It is a direct replacement for my OEM filter. While $15 per filter sounds high, it is cheaper than other 2-micron filters that require bulky bypass systems.

Other 2-micron filters that I've looked at are from Frantz and Amsoil and Pareto Point. I admire the Frantz toilet paper filter medium but installation requires punching a hole in your valve cover or oil pan for the return. The Amsoil system requires finding room in your engine compartment for two outboard filters, one coarse filter and one fine filter. The Pareto Point system has a great bypass design that allows you to continue to use your OEM filter but still requires a second outboard filter.

I've considered using the Pareto Point bypass system with the Frantz toilet paper canister. That will forego punching holes in my engine and allow me to use toilet paper as a filtration medium and save money in the long run. However, I don't know how to explain all that to my wife. If I simply pay $30 for a couple of filters once in a while, life can be much easier to explain.

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#2569947 - 03/16/12 06:59 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: pjf]
Filter guy Offline


Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 1460
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: pjf
I've just received a $30 box of two microGreen filters. It is a direct replacement for my OEM filter. While $15 per filter sounds high, it is cheaper than other 2-micron filters that require bulky bypass systems.

Other 2-micron filters that I've looked at are from Frantz and Amsoil and Pareto Point. I admire the Frantz toilet paper filter medium but installation requires punching a hole in your valve cover or oil pan for the return. The Amsoil system requires finding room in your engine compartment for two outboard filters, one coarse filter and one fine filter. The Pareto Point system has a great bypass design that allows you to continue to use your OEM filter but still requires a second outboard filter.

I've considered using the Pareto Point bypass system with the Frantz toilet paper canister. That will forego punching holes in my engine and allow me to use toilet paper as a filtration medium and save money in the long run. However, I don't know how to explain all that to my wife. If I simply pay $30 for a couple of filters once in a while, life can be much easier to explain.


2 micron filter?

You are aware every oil filter on the market is a 2 micron filter.

Can you provie the efficiency of the microGreen filter for 2 micron? or beta ratio @ 2 micron?

Back in the day, as they say, STP used to offer a Double Oil filter. Similar theory of having two different type medias within the filter can. Just maybe not touted as --"down to 2 micron".

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#2569976 - 03/16/12 07:10 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Filter guy]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 7096
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Filter guy

2 micron filter?

You are aware every oil filter on the market is a 2 micron filter.

Can you provie the efficiency of the microGreen filter for 2 micron? or beta ratio @ 2 micron?


I didn't see any beta ratio or efficiency numbers shown, but didn't look at the entire website. Looks like they had is tested per ISO test standards. Maybe someone cold email them for the test result beta ratios.

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/design/

http://www.microgreenfilter.com/testing/

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#2570033 - 03/16/12 07:41 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: ZeeOSix]
pjf Offline


Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 66
Loc: Colorado
Look at the figures in this post
(http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2359966):

Originally Posted By: Cyclops
I'm pleased with Microgreen results. I wasn't sure if their integrated bypass system worked or a scam but I liked the idea so I tested particle counts comparing Microgreen with a K&N using identical oil and driving routine. Microgreen did extremely well. My latest run was over 15k miles. If I continue at 15k intervals, cost isn't bad.

Micron particle size and respective counts/ml. Note, first count value represent oem size microgreen filter, second is oem size K&N and third is an oversized mircogreen filters. First and second count had ~12,000miles, whereas, third is with 15,458miles. First two counts is with RedLine 5w20 and third with oversize filter with 0w20 Redline. Car is a 2009 Focus.

>=2: 1085,, 2878,, 833
>=5: 402,, 1066,, 308
>=10: 111,, 295,, 85
>=15: 43,, 114,, 33
>=25: 10,, 27,, 7
>=50: 1,, 2,, 0
>=100: 0,, 0,, 0

Doug

Comparted to the K&N filter, it appears that the microGreen filter reduced the number of particles in the UOA to 40% of its former count (from 2878 to 1085).

For particles that are between 2-microns and 5-microns in size, the reduction is also to 40% of its former count (from 1812 to 683).

Here's how I calculated the number of particles between 2 and 5 microns in size:
microGreen: 1085 - 402 = 683
K&N filter: 2878 - 1066 = 1812

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#2575432 - 03/21/12 08:46 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Dakir]
fxrider Offline


Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 818
Loc: Wyoming
Originally Posted By: Dakir
Originally Posted By: pjf
Originally Posted By: mauric3
I was just wondering what would be the best oil filter to use with synthetic oil for a 10k km OCI max?

Thanks!

MicroGreen (http://www.microgreenfilter.com/) claims to be able to filter 2-micron particles. At least one member of this forum has tested his oil and found fewer particles in his used oil. His results are posted here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2359966


$30 for an oil filter is almost unbelievable.
Agreed, i get mine now for $3.27 for a Puralator P12222 at wallyworld..

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#2577622 - 03/23/12 09:10 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: pjf]
Filter guy Offline


Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 1460
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: pjf
Look at the figures in this post
(http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2359966):

Originally Posted By: Cyclops
I'm pleased with Microgreen results. I wasn't sure if their integrated bypass system worked or a scam but I liked the idea so I tested particle counts comparing Microgreen with a K&N using identical oil and driving routine. Microgreen did extremely well. My latest run was over 15k miles. If I continue at 15k intervals, cost isn't bad.

Micron particle size and respective counts/ml. Note, first count value represent oem size microgreen filter, second is oem size K&N and third is an oversized mircogreen filters. First and second count had ~12,000miles, whereas, third is with 15,458miles. First two counts is with RedLine 5w20 and third with oversize filter with 0w20 Redline. Car is a 2009 Focus.

>=2: 1085,, 2878,, 833
>=5: 402,, 1066,, 308
>=10: 111,, 295,, 85
>=15: 43,, 114,, 33
>=25: 10,, 27,, 7
>=50: 1,, 2,, 0
>=100: 0,, 0,, 0

Doug

Comparted to the K&N filter, it appears that the microGreen filter reduced the number of particles in the UOA to 40% of its former count (from 2878 to 1085).

For particles that are between 2-microns and 5-microns in size, the reduction is also to 40% of its former count (from 1812 to 683).

Here's how I calculated the number of particles between 2 and 5 microns in size:
microGreen: 1085 - 402 = 683
K&N filter: 2878 - 1066 = 1812


I would be curious as to how he did his particle counts. I would be curious as to when he changed his air filter.

In a lab they count the particles going into a filter and the particles coming out. This ISO test is run over time. And where very few people actually understand how a beta ratio test is noted, the value is "worst case".

So let's say a test is run for 60 minutes with particle counts tested every 5 minutes. And the worst case scenario is not at the 5 minute mark or the first test point. In fact it rarely is. So the question begs, if as a filter plugs and your thought process is that it gets more efficient the dirtier it gets, how can the worst case scenario happen at some point later in the test rather than at the first sample point?

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#2577647 - 03/23/12 09:39 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Filter guy]
Cyclops Offline


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Santa Fe
Particle counts were done by Blackstone.

Air filter? Original air filter was changed at 27,000 miles and was replaced with a motorcraft oem filter. Therefore, first particle count was with the original air filter but the next two counts were with the replacement filter.

Doug

Edit: A search of my post will show VOA and UOA's (with particle counts) that may answer further questions.


Edited by Cyclops (03/23/12 09:41 PM)

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#2577654 - 03/23/12 09:51 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Cyclops]
Filter guy Offline


Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 1460
Loc: Texas
I'm sure blackstone did a good job doing the count.

Changing the air filter or not impacts the dirt that gets into the oil.

In order for testing to be more accurate, imho, the air filter needs to have the same service life on it. Because normal oil analysis shows the longer you run an air filter the lower the silicon ( dirt) counts go. A new air filter will allow more dirt through. So the second test when the new air filter was used, should show higher particle counts regardless of filter used. And the first test might be skewed because the air filter was nearer it's service life.

If you really wanted comparable testing use one new air filter and the same oil filter brand for the three tests. Then change the air filter and use the second brand for three tests. Then compare. That would be a slightly more accurate comparision.

Just like one oil sample doesn't really tell you much. It is thru multiple sample testing where the comparisons show a better value.

But that was a good start.

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#2577659 - 03/23/12 09:58 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Filter guy]
Cyclops Offline


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Santa Fe
Originally Posted By: Filter guy
... In order for testing to be more accurate, imho, the air filter needs to have the same service life on it. Because normal oil analysis shows the longer you run an air filter the lower the silicon ( dirt) counts go ...


Good .. good point! Didn't realize or think of this.

Doug

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#2577679 - 03/23/12 10:15 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: Cyclops]
Cyclops Offline


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Santa Fe
Si levels look pretty consistent and relatively low between the three analytical runs at 9, 13 and 17 ppm. The lowest value was with original air filter using the stock sized microgreen filter. The next was after replacement of the air filter and with the K&N oil filter. The last value was with the oversized microgreen oil filter and continuation with the replacement air filter. Interesting that the highest Si value also correlated with the lowest particle count.

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#2578397 - 03/24/12 06:52 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: mauric3]
Filter guy Offline


Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 1460
Loc: Texas
Btw..I happen to think the microgreen filter says what it does on the tin. Does a better job of removing 2 micron particles.

I am just curious as to how good is all.

Further if they were smarter.. wink.... they would promote that they filter the 10-25 micron particles better. Those are the ones that are the primary problem which causes engine wear.

Filtering 2 micron is nice but those particles aren't the ones causing as much of the problem.

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#2579174 - 03/25/12 02:54 PM Re: What is the best oil filter? [Re: sunfire]
blmlozz Offline


Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 103
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Which filter has the best filter media? Highest efficiency filtering smallest micron particles.


PureOne: 99.9% @ 20 microns.


This is even better than some of full synthetic filters like Amsoil and RP?

I am due for an OC when the weather gets nice. I want to splurge on a filter that will actually catch something. I've used Puro Plus, P1, Motorcraft, Napa Silver and they all come too clean. I wonder if a higher efficiency filter will catch more.


could someone elaborate on this? At face value it would appear that multiple 'middle range' OTS paper filters are able to outperform $12,$13 and $15 filters.

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