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#2560857 - 03/08/12 07:46 AM Hydrino technology
spock1 Offline


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 233
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
"Electricity from collapsing hydrogen orbits"or ECHO.
How would you like to drive 5000 miles on a gallon of water?

http://www.natscience.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/physics/42816/TESTING-VALIDATES-HYDRINO-THEORY

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#2560858 - 03/08/12 07:49 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Upper Midwest
Wow, what a load of you-know-what.

These scams come along regularly, all with different names. Anyone who stayed awake in high school physics should be able to debunk this in a second.

"The method of electricity production allows the fuel to reproduce itself by diverting part of the energy output to a catalyst that is then regenerated so fuel is only needed once."

This right there ought to raise a huge red flag. The old "self reproducing" nonsense or perpetual motion lunacy.

Haha the more I read that it's so full of nonsense:

"Scientists formerly believed there could be no parts of the hydrogen atom smaller than the atom itself."

Say what?
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#2560882 - 03/08/12 08:23 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: kschachn]
spock1 Offline


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 233
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
In order to comment intelligeably about the subject you need a solid background in advanced physics.
Dr Alexander Bykanov,Dr Randell Mills,Dr Sam Kogan and Dr Richard do have such a background.
I only took basic University physics and still feel unqualified to form an opinion on the subject.

Do we have any Bitog physicist?

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#2560890 - 03/08/12 08:42 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Upper Midwest
What? No you don't. And if you took "university physics" then you slept, there is no way someone with even a little physics background wouldn't see right through this.

Google "water gas" or "Brown's Gas" or "water cars" and you will see, same old, same old. Nothing changes.

There is no way you get that kind of energy out of water. The bond energy (somewhat over 100 kcal) is high, it of course takes the same amount of energy to decompose water that you get out of combusting the resultant oxygen and hydrogen.

One thing that often happens is that people confuse bond energy with activation energy when discussing catalysts. Nature is not cheated; you can increase the reaction rate but you can't get something for nothing.

Originally Posted By: spock1
In order to comment intelligeably about the subject you need a solid background in advanced physics.
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#2560971 - 03/08/12 09:41 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: spock1
In order to comment intelligeably about the subject you need a solid background in advanced physics.


This, too, is a technique of the scammers. "Oh, the science behind this new invention is too complicated for 'other' scientists to understand", or "too complicated for YOU to understand", blah blah blah.

Obfuscate and divert, a technique used when the objective is to deceive.
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#2561019 - 03/08/12 10:31 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: kschachn]
spock1 Offline


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 233
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
For your information ,a Brown's Gas generator was built and patented in 1977 by Milan Manchich and the
US Patent number is 4014777.
We all know that the US patent office will not patent anything that does't work.
You seem to refuse to acknowledge the fact that the theory has already been proven.
If a ground state below 13.06 eV didn't exist we would have Brown's Gas-true?
Mill's has already found 137 states below 13.06 eV.
Acknowledging Hydrino physics will probably shatter the old
Newtonian dogma-so be it.

FYI-I didn't sleep through my physics classes.Physics was actually one of my favorite subjects. wink







Edited by spock1 (03/08/12 10:34 AM)

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#2561023 - 03/08/12 10:34 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 2929
Loc: Boston, MA
I wouldn't invest it in right off.

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#2561043 - 03/08/12 10:49 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
Gabe Offline


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 1408
Loc: Chicago, IL
The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

So, the theoretical maximum amount of energy that can be produce using 10 J is only 10 J.

Unless .... UFO

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#2561054 - 03/08/12 10:56 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Upper Midwest
A patent for a welding device that generates oxygen and hydrogen by elecrolysis of water? Sure what about it? I can generate oxygen and hydrogen all day at home by this method. Energy in = energy out (minus efficiency losses), all day long. What is your point? There are no claims that this device uses less energy to decompose the water than you get by burning the oxygen and hydrogen produced. It is just a convenient means of generating the gases, tell me how you get around the 118 kcal required to do it?

"Shatter the old Newtonian dogma". Right, just as soon as those photons go faster than the speed of light. How's that working out for you?


Originally Posted By: spock1
For your information ,a Brown's Gas generator was built and patented in 1977 by Milan Manchich and the
US Patent number is 4014777.
We all know that the US patent office will not patent anything that does't work.
You seem to refuse to acknowledge the fact that the theory has already been proven.
If a ground state below 13.06 eV didn't exist we would have Brown's Gas-true?
Mill's has already found 137 states below 13.06 eV.
Acknowledging Hydrino physics will probably shatter the old
Newtonian dogma-so be it.

FYI-I didn't sleep through my physics classes.Physics was actually one of my favorite subjects. wink





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#2561692 - 03/08/12 08:21 PM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: kschachn]
spock1 Offline


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 233
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Additional information about a recent patent issued by the US Patent office.

Lower-energy hydrogen methods and structures. Methods and apparatus for obtaining energy from hydrogen atoms (molecules) by stimulating their electrons to relax to quantized lower energy levels and smaller radii (smaller semimajor and semiminor axes) than the "ground state" by providing energy sinks or means to remove energy resonant with hydrogen energy released to stimulate theses transitions. This invention is based on the study of cold fusion and quantum mechanics. Patent #6,024,935 2/15/00.

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#2562002 - 03/09/12 05:51 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: kschachn]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14751
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: spock1
In order to comment intelligeably about the subject you need a solid background in advanced physics.


This, too, is a technique of the scammers. "Oh, the science behind this new invention is too complicated for 'other' scientists to understand", or "too complicated for YOU to understand", blah blah blah.

Obfuscate and divert, a technique used when the objective is to deceive.


Obfuscation is a very popular thing these days!

I doubt we'll be discarding our Physics books anytime soon. This looks like more hooey.
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#2592434 - 04/07/12 09:22 AM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
Al Offline


Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 13581
Loc: Elizabethtown, Pa
Originally Posted By: spock1
In order to comment intelligeably about the subject you need a solid background in advanced physics.

I have read up on Quantum Mechanics for 10 years..having a background in Nuclear Power. I am nowhere near capable of proving whether he is right or wrong.

I do know that the theory flies in the face of Dirac, Heisenberg, Schroeder, and mainstream QM Theorists in the last 80+ years. The man is peddling the biggest bag of [censored] ever.

When Cern, CalTech, MIT, U.S Academies of Science, Fermi Lab, SLAC, etc say he is on to something instead of mocking him. I'll take notice.

I have the feeling I have been trolled.

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#2597669 - 04/12/12 12:52 PM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14498
Loc: Midwest
Here is a behind the scenes discussion in wiki on the Blacklight Co. (BLP who is headed by Randal Mills) article which provides some info I haven't seen on the internet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AHydrino_theory

Quote:
BLP hired GEN3 Partners to supply a scientist to do BLP work at a laboratory that BLP rented from Harvard. That does not constitute independent validation by any normal use of the term.


GEN3 attemps to bring valid technology to the forefront and help promote it. But if Mills sits on the GEN3 board (BOD), then how can anything that GEN3 says about the technology be valid?

Harvard did not validate any of the claims. BLP some had guns for hire (GEN3) conduct some experiments at Harvard,renting Harvard lab space.

I have been looking at the criticism by Rathike, http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/7/1/127/fulltext/ , and his criticism of the hydrino theory seems to be on track, backed by quantum theory.

Then along comes this guy:

http://www.byzipp.com/energy/ who says it MIGHT be a possibility owing to a relativistic "Casmir Effect."

I am going to hold my personal judgemmnt until I see something published in Peer Review journals that shows this sub-ground state emission and the cascade of possible energy levels growing as the electron oribitals get smaller.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuclear/loser-hot-or-not

Well, not even Einstein felt comfortable about the non-deterministic QT.



Edited by MolaKule (04/12/12 12:57 PM)
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#2597809 - 04/12/12 03:55 PM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 4448
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: spock1
In order to comment intelligeably about the subject you need a solid background in advanced physics.
Dr Alexander Bykanov,Dr Randell Mills,Dr Sam Kogan and Dr Richard do have such a background.
I only took basic University physics and still feel unqualified to form an opinion on the subject.

Do we have any Bitog physicist?


I don't meet your standard listed above, but I majored in Astrophysics in college, so I took a lot of physics classes...and the refutation of this has nothing to do with Newton...

It has to do with Thermodynamics.

Specifically, the first law...

As well as QM...the state doesn't exist, has never been observed and sounds like a complete fabrication. It simply makes no sense. Why is this guy the only one to ever observe and create the lower quantum state?

His essential argument? He can "squeeze" the energy out of ordinary hydrogen and it just magically replaces itself??? Really? REALLY?

From so many perspectives, this is just ridiculous.

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but my "hogwash" detector just pegged when I read the article...


Edited by Astro14 (04/12/12 04:05 PM)
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#2597990 - 04/12/12 07:29 PM Re: Hydrino technology [Re: spock1]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26492
Loc: a prison island
Having scratche my head for a year over the "foreverlight", that takes in heat, and emits light, the magic of an electron being jumped out of orbit, and being able to capture the energy on the way back down doesn't make sense...as previously stated, the energy has to come from somewhere in the first place.

The energy COULD be matter, we know that if we convert matter into energy, we get heaps of it, but it can't come from no-where.

That being said, any paradigm that required there to be 9 times as much invisible, untouchable, immeasurable "stuff" as there is "stuff" that we can see and measure leaves a lot of wiggle room for new things to be learned.

Poor old Kasimir is copping a flogging in the alternate streams at the moment.

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