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#2555903 - 03/03/12 06:16 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: ryansride2017]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26787
Loc: a prison island
Sadly, it's probably close to the mark.,

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#2555906 - 03/03/12 06:19 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: ryansride2017]
sciphi Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 8506
Loc: Upstate NY
http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+R...t+Investigation

NHTSA press release stating there's no issue. Straight from the horse's mouth. Now I'll be flamed for posting the link stating there's no problem. gladiator hide
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2009 Honda Fit Sport
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#2555928 - 03/03/12 06:45 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: mpvue]
dishdude Online   content


Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 3316
Loc: Phoenix
Originally Posted By: mpvue
GM should have marketed the Volt with Apple, paint it white only and call it the iCar.

would have sold a billion of 'em.

then the next year, sell it only in black, change the color of the start button, call it the iCar 2 and sell another billion.


So true!

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#2555930 - 03/03/12 06:47 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: sciphi]
hypervish Online   content


Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 1516
Loc: new jersey
Originally Posted By: sciphi
http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+R...t+Investigation

NHTSA press release stating there's no issue. Straight from the horse's mouth. Now I'll be flamed for posting the link stating there's no problem. gladiator hide


No one is going to flame you, we understand that the Volt has no problem related to fires... But the media isn't the reason why they aren't selling. IMO: It's because they are overpriced, filled with hard plastic, and a rip-off.

If you think the Volt isn't selling because of the media, then you are mistaken. Toyota had it much worse, and they survived. The Volt media coverage wasn't even that bad.


Edited by hypervish (03/03/12 06:48 PM)
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#2555942 - 03/03/12 06:54 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: sciphi]
antiqueshell Offline


Registered: 03/02/12
Posts: 4220
Loc: chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted By: sciphi
http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+R...t+Investigation

NHTSA press release stating there's no issue. Straight from the horse's mouth. Now I'll be flamed for posting the link stating there's no problem. gladiator hide

I just have to chuckle with all the GM haters around here, they obviously watch a LOT of Faux News Channel, and parrot that dubious company's line 100%.

The fact is that Ford, and others actully did get loans Ford, except that Ford decided it didn't need it. Also guess who was present at that congressional hearing concerning loans and who was promoting those loans. None other CEO fo Ford Alan Mulally, sitting right next to GM CEO Wagoner. Pleading for that loan for GM, and Chrysler.

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#2555947 - 03/03/12 06:59 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: antiqueshell]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26379
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: sciphi
http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+R...t+Investigation

NHTSA press release stating there's no issue. Straight from the horse's mouth. Now I'll be flamed for posting the link stating there's no problem. gladiator hide

I just have to chuckle with all the GM haters around here, they obviously watch a LOT of Faux News Channel, and parrot that dubious company's line 100%.

The fact is that Ford, and others actully did get loans Ford, except that Ford decided it didn't need it. Also guess who was present at that congressional hearing concerning loans and who was promoting those loans. None other CEO fo Ford Alan Mulally, sitting right next to GM CEO Wagoner. Pleading for that loan for GM, and Chrysler.


Why would Ford want their domestic adversaries to close up shop? An enemy you know is better than one you don't. If GM and Chrysler had been wiped out (due to their own financial wrong doings, but that's neither here nor there at this point) it would have opened the market for Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan.....etc. I don't think Ford wanted the "big three" to become the "big one" with no suppliers to get parts from and entire supply channels closed down. No, I don't think Ford wanted any of that at all. So yes, Mulally pleaded for them to get bailed out, it was in the best interest of Ford for him to do so.
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#2555962 - 03/03/12 07:10 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: cchase]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6321
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: cchase
Don't you plug in a normal vehicle when you get gas?


For 5 mins and go 400 miles+. Not every day.
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#2556065 - 03/03/12 08:22 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: rjundi]
cchase Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 3998
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: cchase
Don't you plug in a normal vehicle when you get gas?


For 5 mins and go 400 miles+. Not every day.


You are aware that the total range of the Volt is over 300 miles, right?

Are you doing things while you sleep with your car that it being plugged in during that time would be inconvenient?

I'm not trying to sell the Volt to anyone, but I haven't heard of one good excuse other than cost against the car yet.

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#2556113 - 03/03/12 09:12 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: cchase]
Bryan K. Walton Offline


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 258
Loc: Wilton, IA, USA
Originally Posted By: cchase
You are aware that the total range of the Volt is over 300 miles, right?


And you can just fill up the tank after that and keep driving on gasoline until you get to a place where you can charge the battery. Essentially, the car is an EV that isn't range limited. I agree that it is too expensive. But it is a cool idea, still.

-Bryan
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#2556130 - 03/03/12 09:36 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: Trav]
oppirs Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 149
Loc: chicagoland
Originally Posted By: Trav
No surprise. I don't want a gas hog but i don't want a car with the nickname Ronson or Zippo either.


Then your gonna love this new Volt Commercial!!!!

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#2556186 - 03/03/12 10:27 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: ryansride2017]
mikered30 Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1289
Loc: PA
LOL, that was a good video.

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#2556239 - 03/03/12 11:26 PM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: MrHorspwer]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33776
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer


That leads into true future energy sources, things like hydrogen. A hydrogen future will never exist until there is wide scale production and distribution. All the folks in the above paragraph (oil companies, nuclear providers, and green energy suppliers) don't want to see this come to fruition, since it means a dent in their own plans.



Right, because hydrogen is practical, right? Storage, compression, a cycle that is maybe 10% efficient if coming from something like solar...

CNG fuel cells may work, but there is a major capital cost associated, and the reality is that this really is only an evolutionary improvement too, with well to wheels effiencies in the 40-ish percent, which better diesels can do right now. There is a benefit at part load, of course, but the end result is TBD and not the end all, be all.

It is actually more efficient to do solar to battery for mobility than solar to hydrogen.

So the question will ALWAYS come back to one thing - what is the right mobiity fuel?

The volt has it right. Liquids are an optimal energy store, despite low conversion efficiency, but storage in the end all is a very efficient way to provide mobility if the density of the storage aligns with the use cycle. IMO a 40 mile range on the volt is ideal. I commute 9 miles, I have more than enough energy to do 20 miles.

And lets recall... The volt uses about 8kWh for 40 miles. So my commute would cost 4kWh, or 60c, all efficiency aspects considered. A 40 MPG car would cost me roughly $2 in gas.

So every day Im saving $1.40 in fuel costs. Compelling? Maybe not.

But at the end of the day, nobody will ever be able to drive 400 miles on a battery. But for the driving that 85% of the population does normally, a volt would be ideal and cheaper to operate. As fuel goes up in cost, this benefit will become more substantial.

Whether it is worth it in terms of economics is another story, since a 50 MPG hybrid might make it silly given the fuel savings and acquisition cost. But toyota obviously doesnt think so, since the PHEV version of the prius is coming for the same reason that the volt exists. The motor trend article on the PHEV prius stated that "No, 12 miles doesn't sound like much -- the Volt aims for 40 miles gas-free. But even so, Toyota says that most journeys are less than 12 miles. It expresses that by calculating that if all cars had a 12-mile electric range, gas use would be cut by 60 percent."


And I bet it will be a $30k car with a 12 mile range. Better value? More of a sweet spot?

Maybe, maybe not.

But for those who did put solar on their homes, and who chose to live reasonably close to work, they may well be laughing all the way to the bank with a volt or PHEV prius when gas goes to $5 or $6/gal, let alone higher in the future due to supply, refiners, tax or whatever else.



The volt adoption in year one is no suprise to be a flop. There is a ton of misunderstanding, fear, etc. to come on top of the high acquisition cost. Plus there is the need factor. Would I consider buying a volt? Yes. Do I need a new car? No. Does my lack of need of a new car cause the volt to be a flop?

Like it or not, this general type of architecture is the future, and will integrate in one way or another. Id have preferred to see greater hybrid penetration first, with advanced batteries that could then be upsized to fit the volt/PHEV type application. However, there is benefit to jumping in with two feet to gain insight, real test info, etc.

That's what the volt is/did, and even if it looses money (the prius did too), it provides great engineering info and helps to display the tech gap areas so that they can be addressed based upon real life use.

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#2556261 - 03/04/12 12:00 AM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: JHZR2]
strongt Offline


Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 350
Loc: So. Utah
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


And I bet it will be a $30k car with a 12 mile range. Better value? More of a sweet spot?



The Chevy Volt's MSRP starting price is $31,645 after the tax break according to Chevy's web site. The Volt nets you up to 50 mile on the Batt.

The PHEV Prius has a starting MSRP of $32,000 or the PHEV Prius Advance for a MSRP starting at $39,525 as per the Toyota website. And Prius will net you 12 miles on the Batt.

After the tax break seems to me you get a better deal since you get more mileage of gas free driving per charge out of the Volt compared to the PHEV Prius.


Edited by strongt (03/04/12 12:04 AM)
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#2556374 - 03/04/12 08:15 AM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: cchase]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 6321
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: cchase
Don't you plug in a normal vehicle when you get gas?


For 5 mins and go 400 miles+. Not every day.


You are aware that the total range of the Volt is over 300 miles, right?

Are you doing things while you sleep with your car that it being plugged in during that time would be inconvenient?

I'm not trying to sell the Volt to anyone, but I haven't heard of one good excuse other than cost against the car yet.


The routine of plugging in is what is unappealing. This partially limits the selling audience for folks. Clearly GM desperately needs any body who can buy it.

Not every parking space, parking garage(esp), barn, or standard garage has an outlet.
_________________________
2005 Legacy GT wagon 5mt - 172k - Mobil 5000/OEM Subie filter

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#2556380 - 03/04/12 08:20 AM Re: Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown [Re: strongt]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33776
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: strongt
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


And I bet it will be a $30k car with a 12 mile range. Better value? More of a sweet spot?



The Chevy Volt's MSRP starting price is $31,645 after the tax break according to Chevy's web site. The Volt nets you up to 50 mile on the Batt.

The PHEV Prius has a starting MSRP of $32,000 or the PHEV Prius Advance for a MSRP starting at $39,525 as per the Toyota website. And Prius will net you 12 miles on the Batt.

After the tax break seems to me you get a better deal since you get more mileage of gas free driving per charge out of the Volt compared to the PHEV Prius.


GREAT info! Wasnt the Volt $41k just a little whole ago? Govt rebates should not be counted...

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