Recent Topics
ripped strut boots, 08 matrix.
by JustinH
08/21/14 07:04 AM
Discount Tire Direct Labor Day Sale
by sopususer
08/21/14 05:08 AM
Fixed another annoying Chevy noise
by Realtech214
08/21/14 03:51 AM
DI intake valves CAN be cleaned with PEA?
by Alext
08/21/14 01:27 AM
Longer Oil Filter,Yes I Need One
by rrounds
08/21/14 12:44 AM
Young guys with beards
by Merkava_4
08/21/14 12:39 AM
New Prestone Coolant? Pics
by ChrisW
08/21/14 12:08 AM
hardly any air out of the vents
by ram_man
08/20/14 11:11 PM
Hoping you really love winter...
by daves87rs
08/20/14 11:09 PM
New GM 8 speed transmission to use new Syn fluid
by Nate1979
08/20/14 10:43 PM
Weird sound on cold startup
by Benoit
08/20/14 10:17 PM
mobil1 0w40 or total energy 9000 5w40 bmw n54
by foe516
08/20/14 09:20 PM
Newest Members
plumcrazy, davidperrysmith, FilterMinder1, hammms, 73bug
51030 Registered Users
Who's Online
65 registered (Apollo14, barkingspider, BigWrench9, 2010_FX4, 57ChevyLS, 6 invisible), 1112 Guests and 235 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51030 Members
64 Forums
218087 Topics
3437526 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Topic Options
#2551414 - 02/28/12 02:42 PM GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn?
spock1 Offline


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 233
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Will high viscosity,low volatility,and low pour point be enough to strongly affect the market or will this be another yawner?
I can see it being used in the blending of 0w20 motor oils and competing with PAO in the premium category.
Will it take over the group III segment completely?

Top
#2551474 - 02/28/12 03:29 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: spock1]
RF Overlord Offline


Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 3086
Loc: Cape Cod, MA
If it reduces the amount of crude necessary to make finished lubricating oil, that might be a plus.
_________________________
Supercharged '03 Mercury Marauder - Trilogy Motorsports #61
PP 5W-30 / MC FL820S

Y2K Grand Marquis GS - daily driver
MC 5W-20 / MC FL820S

Top
#2551510 - 02/28/12 04:12 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: spock1]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9351
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: spock1
Will it take over the group III segment completely?

No but it will bolster the growing category GP III+ base oils a formulator will have to draw from. Hopefully we will start seeing higher quality and performance spec's in the OTC syn' oils.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

Top
#2551862 - 02/28/12 10:06 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: spock1]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14310
Loc: Midwest
Many of us formulators are wating for more production and for it to hit the general supply chain.

Right now, Shell is holding on to it for their internal blending.
_________________________
Don't confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude is who you are. smile

Top
#2552436 - 02/29/12 01:46 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: MolaKule]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9351
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
According to Lubes 'N' Greases the GTL oil tankers started arriving at the Gulf coast refinery in October of last year.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

Top
#2552738 - 02/29/12 07:05 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: MolaKule]
vinu_neuro Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 947
Loc: Chicago / IN
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Many of us formulators are wating for more production and for it to hit the general supply chain.

Right now, Shell is holding on to it for their internal blending.


What's XOM status?
_________________________
04 Honda Accord Coupe V6 6spd | PUP 5W-20

Top
#2552765 - 02/29/12 07:26 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: CATERHAM]
mr_diy Offline


Registered: 07/31/11
Posts: 222
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
According to Lubes 'N' Greases the GTL oil tankers started arriving at the Gulf coast refinery in October of last year.


So it might be used in the SN versions of PP, PU, QSUD, etc. Is there any evidence of this? Seems like they would have figured out a marketing angle to go with its use.

With the price of natural gas it would seem like it would be a real money maker if it was produced in America.
_________________________
98 Toyota Sienna 148k, 18-26mpg, 21avg
99 Olds Intrigue 103k, 1k mpQT
13 Honda Civic 3k, 28-45mpg

Top
#2553376 - 03/01/12 12:20 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: vinu_neuro]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25860
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Many of us formulators are wating for more production and for it to hit the general supply chain.

Right now, Shell is holding on to it for their internal blending.


What's XOM status?


Good question, all I've found so far is this:

Quote:
ExxonMobil
ExxonMobil GTL project is for the production of synthetic GTL products in excess of 150,000 BPD. Feedstock for the GTL Plant will be provided from two wellhead platforms; approximately 1.8 BSCFD will be required to yield the target GTL production. The project will produce base oil stocks in addition to the synthetic fuels.

Onshore gas treatment and NGL recovery plants will benefit, to the maximum extent possible, from the existing RasGas infrastructure to reduce the overall project cost. LPG, condensate and sulphur storage/loading will most likely be shared with other ongoing projects at Ras Laffan.

The HOA signed in July 2004 specifies the principal terms for the project that will be defined in a Development and Production Sharing Agreement (DPSA). The term of the DPSA will be 25 years from the start of production, which is expected to commence in 2011.

ExxonMobil will drill an appraisal well for the GTL project in 2004, and will supplement the extensive preliminary front-end engineering and design (pre-FEED) undertaken earlier. FEED is expected to begin upon execution of the DPSA.


Quote:
Pearl GTL
Shell�s GTL is an integrated project which will develop about 1.6 BSCFD of North Field gas to produce approximately 140,000 BPD of synthetic fuels and base oils. The project will be developed in two phases with the first phase operational in 2009, producing around 70,000 bpd of GTL products with the second phase to be completed less than two years later. Qatar Petroleum and Qatar Shell GTL Limited (Shell) signed the Development and Production Sharing Agreement (DPSA) for Pearl GTL in July 2004.

The first of two appraisal wells in the North Field were drilled in February 2004 and the Front End Engineering and Design (FEED) contract was awarded to JGC Inc. of Japan in March 2004.


http://www.qatarembassy.net/major_projects.asp#Gas-to_Liquids_(GTL)_Projects
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
05 Forester XT

Top
#2553379 - 03/01/12 12:24 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: spock1]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25860
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Oh, found this:

http://dazzlepod.com/cable/07DOHA202/

Quote:

VZCZCXRO4748
PP RUEHDE RUEHDIR
DE RUEHDO #0202 0531431
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
P 221431Z FEB 07
FM AMEMBASSY DOHA
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 6249
INFO RUEHZM/GULF COOPERATION COUNCIL COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
RHMFIUU/DEPT OF ENERGY WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY
RUCPDOC/USDOC WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY UNCLAS DOHA 000202

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS:
SUBJECT: RISING COSTS END EXXONMOBIL GTL PROJECT

REF: A. DOHA 00174

1. (U) On February 21 Exxon Mobil and Qatar Petroleum (QP)
terminated plans to build a gas-to-liquids (GTL) plant
because of increasing costs to build the facility. The plant
was supposed to be become the world's largest GTL plant,
producing 154,000 barrels per day of base oils and synthetic
fuels. While there is no report of how high costs rose, the
plant was originally estimated at USD 7 billion.

2. (SBU) This announcement comes as a surprise to Post.
Emboffs met with Mark Tressler, ExxonMobil's GTL manager on
February 7 but no mention was made of this decision. He told
Emboffs that the company planned to use the products from the
GTL plant to make lube stocks to sell themselves
internationally. ExxonMobil would have also produced the 1.6
billion cubic feet of feedstock for the plant indicating that
the company would have controlled the entire process of the
natural gas development.

-------
COMMENT
-------

3. (SBU) This recent development confirms Sasol Chevron's
comments (ref A) that constraints in the construction sector
were increasing costs of GTL plants. ExxonMobil was slated to
pay 100% of the capital costs for the project which probably
contributed to the decision to end it. Minister al-Attiyah's
public statement that "GTL technology is expensive and very
technical" is an indication that it will be quite some time
until Qatar fulfills its aspiration to become the GTL capital
of the world. ExxonMobil's presence is unlikely to decrease
as the company has numerous other projects in Qatar,
including a project to develop a new gas field for domestic
Qatari use which was announced concurrently with the
termination of the GTL project.
UNTERMEYER
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
05 Forester XT

Top
#2560074 - 03/07/12 12:56 PM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: spock1]
PandaBear Offline


Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 12312
Loc: Silicon Valley
How is the quality different between GTL and PAO base stock? I was under the impression that PAO is made from natural gas and so are GTL, are they different in chemistry (i.e. bonds) or purity?
_________________________
"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah

Top
#2560936 - 03/08/12 09:12 AM Re: GTL group III+ motor oils-big deal or big yawn? [Re: PandaBear]
Tom NJ Offline


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 1609
Loc: New Jersey & Virginia
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
How is the quality different between GTL and PAO base stock? I was under the impression that PAO is made from natural gas and so are GTL, are they different in chemistry (i.e. bonds) or purity?


Both are derived from natural gas but by different processes.

To make PAO, ethane is recovered from natural gas through catalytic and hydro cracking, and then converted to ethylene by thermally cracking with steam. The ethylene is then oligomerized into a pure alpha olefin called 1-decene, which is then oligomerized into mixed polyalphaolefins. The mixed polyalphaolefins are then hydrogenated to close double bonds and distilled into viscosity grades.

To make GTL, methane from natural gas is oxidized into syngas, which is then reacted over a catalyst into a mixture of waxy long chain hydrocarbons. These hydrocarbons are then hydrocracked into a range of smaller molecules and distilled into various cuts for fuels (majority) and base oils (few percent). The base oil cuts are then dewaxed and hydrofinished.

PAO is a more pure, narrow cut that has zero wax, zero polarity, much better low temperature flow properties, and slightly less Noack volatility than GTL. GTL is nearly as stable as PAO at high temperatures and has some polarity but retains some wax and has a higher pour point. The two are very similar in all other respects.

Both PAO and GTL are overkill for most automotive oils, but can help with extended drains when properly formulated, and allow lower viscosity grades (0W-X) while retaining acceptable volatility.

Tom NJ

Top