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#2545371 - 02/22/12 06:17 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: ARCOgraphite]
rjacket Offline


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1107
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It looks like the car was driven for a bit with the crack, based on the trail of oil under the engine and across that black cross-member appearing soaked with liquid.

It did happen to my cousin's old Blazer where the low oil warning came on moments before the engine seized up due to lack of oil. He didn't have time to get it shut off before it seized.
(background: I am a mech E and have done FMEA forensics)I Agree the car was driven to its demise. Analysing the available photos, I see no evidence of the canister or undercarriage being struck and damaged whilst being driving over road debris. The exhaust and converter and resonator behind the drivetrain are all covered with oil which was trailed under the car by air moving at speed. The oil pressure warning light would have indicated and the MIL would have lit. Check with scangauge. Vehicle was run no oil pressure without any doubt. (unrelated: I noticed some odd and seemingly severe bodywork repair under the drivers door weld seam area. Was this repaired at one time?). Without having the part in hand, I would make an assumption that the part failed along a polymer meld line either due to overtorquing stress (camming over the lower flutes compressing the sidewall) or thermo cycling age related failure <or> a combination of the two. The Last service tech should have noted any worn or unserviceable part. I say it's on them but somewhat hard to prove. Absolutely get the as-installed torque and have a impartial witness and photos/MPEG video of the event. Good luck.


Well done Sherlock. I tend to agree with you.

It is clear oil was spraying with the car driven. Now, the question is, did enough come out to make lamps light up and did your daughter ignore them?

If they didn't come on, is it feasible that the crack was tiny when the car was being driven, and expanded when the car was parked out in the cold, and then a lot of oil drained out? If that happened, then why wasn't a lot of oil discovered under the car when it was found not to start?

So the chances are that the car was driven with warning lamps on.



Edited by rjacket (02/22/12 06:19 PM)

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#2545385 - 02/22/12 06:29 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: blkworth]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 6973
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: blkworth
Check the picture link again. I added some more pictures...The car was towed to an engine shop. I have been fighting this for over two months.


So did the engine shop say there was engine damage? If enough oil leaked out while it was sitting, then on some Mazda's it's possible there is an oil level switch that might have disabled the car from turning over and starting (just a theory). Did the engine actually crank over and not start, or did the engine not even crank when she tried to start it after sitting?

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#2545577 - 02/22/12 09:16 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: blkworth]
TFB1 Offline


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 2622
Loc: VA
No matter how the event progressed, the engine would have been making noise and/or indicating a oil pressure problem long before the engine seized... If the oil leaked out while parked(not likely), the engine would not be seized until it ran a few minutes... With all the oil on the catalytic converter and exhaust pipe behind it, hard to believe there wasn't smoke rolling from under the car when running...

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#2545602 - 02/22/12 09:37 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: blkworth]
rjacket Offline


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1107
Loc: CA
Time to get a new .................


























...................... Daughter

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#2545606 - 02/22/12 09:55 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: rjacket]
ComfyShorts Offline


Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 178
Loc: California
We will need pictures of said daughter for analysis.

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#2545624 - 02/22/12 10:33 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: ComfyShorts]
rjacket Offline


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1107
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: ComfyShorts
We will need pictures of said daughter for analysis.


Or he could send off for a UDA .........

It was an 18 year DCI

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#2545655 - 02/22/12 11:43 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: blkworth]
Dakota1820 Offline
formerly chevyboy14


Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 3894
Loc: missouri usa
I find this puzzling. You know what I think. I bet you it was probably over tightened. But I bet you the car gave some obvious warning signs. If nothing else the awful smell. The smoke and at one point or another a warning light. So someone probably did a shoddy job but she either a :ignored it or b: is clueless as a blind cat and didn't realize. The second isn't meant to be offensive but peoplenare clueless especially girls at that age. I would know my fiance is 19 I'm 20 and good God she is pretty clueless at times. Its in the women spieces or something. If you can prove and get them to pay for repair. Great but I doubt it. And in my opinion I would be asking your daughter to help pay for it. Because her fault or not she should be responsible for car she is driving and pay attention to what's going on around it. Check tire pressure oil level and looking underneath it from time to time and anyone who owns a car should do it. I wish you luck. And I hope you get it resolved. Keep us posted
_________________________
2004 Honda civic vp -m1 5w30
1998 Saturn sl2 -mobil super 5000 5w30


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#2545672 - 02/23/12 01:34 AM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: ARCOgraphite]
blkworth Offline


Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 11
Loc: CO, USA
I am not sure if it was damaged. I bought it 2.5 years ago used.

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#2545676 - 02/23/12 02:02 AM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: blkworth]
Scott_Tucker Offline


Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 840
Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca.
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. If it was going to fail it would have right after the oil change. For 2000 miles the oil should have been checked several times. Did she not notice it was low? In order for it to have siezed, it would have to have been driven quite some time with no oil, engines don't sieze instantly. The was on unless it was broken. The original post doesn't say if the oil level was checked after it was seized.
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2012 Honda Civic Si, Dyno Blue Pearl

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#2545680 - 02/23/12 02:21 AM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: blkworth]
Scott_Tucker Offline


Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 840
Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca.
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. If it was going to fail it would have right after the oil change. For 2000 miles the oil should have been checked several times. Did she not notice it was low? In order for it to have siezed, it would have to have been driven quite some time with no oil, engines don't sieze instantly. The light was on unless it was broken, which isn't walwarts fault. The engine would have been making terrible noise too for sure. The original post doesn't say if the oil level was checked after it was seized.

I'm assuming this was a Mazda 3 or something that has the same engine. Those caps are notorious for cracking. The plastic is brittle and people tend to over torque them. Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

You may get Walmart to buy a new engine if you complain enough. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and Walmart has
got a large hush fund.
_________________________
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#2545745 - 02/23/12 07:42 AM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: Scott_Tucker]
css9450 Offline


Registered: 01/03/04
Posts: 1624
Loc: Glen Ellyn, IL
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
For 2000 miles the oil should have been checked several times.


Every time she got gas, right? just like it says in her owners manual....

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#2545787 - 02/23/12 08:45 AM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: Scott_Tucker]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 8438
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. ... Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

The mechanic could record the torque required to loosen the cap - after the initial break away torque which will typ read above the final torque. Have Photos of wrench reading while removing, with impartial witness on hand to notorize the event. Car was running OK before the oil change.
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#2545965 - 02/23/12 12:28 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: ARCOgraphite]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 6973
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. ... Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

The mechanic could record the torque required to loosen the cap - after the initial break away torque which will typ read above the final torque. Have Photos of wrench reading while removing, with impartial witness on hand to notorize the event. Car was running OK before the oil change.


I doubt measuring the break away loosing torque will tell you what it was initially torqued to. Mechanical items like this will usually take way more torque to break loose than was used to initially tighten. Once it's broken loose, it could never be accurately determined what it was torqued to.

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#2545966 - 02/23/12 12:29 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: blkworth]
BMWTurboDzl Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 1215
Loc: Atlanta,GA
Frozen PVC valve (Did not look at photos) do this?
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'15 435i - German Elves building.

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#2546037 - 02/23/12 01:56 PM Re: Engine Problem - Incorrect Oil Change [Re: ZeeOSix]
Scott_Tucker Offline


Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 840
Loc: Santa Cruz, Ca.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Absolutely not Walmarts fault. ... Proving they over torqued it will be impossible.

The mechanic could record the torque required to loosen the cap - after the initial break away torque which will typ read above the final torque. Have Photos of wrench reading while removing, with impartial witness on hand to notorize the event. Car was running OK before the oil change.


I doubt measuring the break away loosing torque will tell you what it was initially torqued to. Mechanical items like this will usually take way more torque to break loose than was used to initially tighten. Once it's broken loose, it could never be accurately determined what it was torqued to.


Agreed. There is no spec on what the break away torque should be. Also, as time goes by, the break away torque will increase. There are just too many factors to consider.
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2012 Honda Civic Si, Dyno Blue Pearl

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