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#2543338 - 02/20/12 09:32 PM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: rufushusky]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46684
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Cool. That's why I chose to quote your post. The "positively and negatively" sorta gave it away. grin2

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#2543483 - 02/21/12 04:43 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I've not chimed in because I don't use it. But if it's OK for Paul, buster, oilboy123, Powerstroke, KevinsDmax and others, then it's OK for me, right?

I see nothing inherrently "wrong" with using the HDD product over a 40 grade. The concern over thinner HDEOs is often way overblown. Those that use the lighter grades (dino's and syn's) and have done UOAs (Dmaxs, ISBs, PSDs) show the fears are unfounded.


I would caution all of us to not jump to conclusions here. He mentioned he is interested in "switching over" but we have no idea of what he's currently using (dino, semi, syn? 40 grade, 30 grade?)

Let's look at his statement a bit closer:
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
At this point It's not about me or my situation. I want real world experience from those who have used it. I'm educated in mechanics and engines. I'm just interested in end user reports. From that information I'll decide if this product is right for me.

It's not about him or his situation? So, we cannot ask about his conditions and circumstances, but then he wants to limit us to not answering if we don't use HDD? That's kind of short sighted in my opinion. What is his ultimate goal? Is he curious about all syns in general? No. Is he curious about 40 grades? No. Is he curious about dinos? No. He asked about one topic; HDD. Why? Seems like he's already made up his mind. But he doesn't want us to know anything about how he's going to use it. He indicates that he's been around engines and mechanics; fine. He's been a member here for nearly 5 years. He should know how this works by now. He should know the topic of "which oil is best" is moot; they all perform well in most any application. I would remind him, and the rest of you, that the success or failure of any lube is predicated on it's proper use, and not abuse or mis-application. The lube is only one part of the overall maintenance program.

Let's suppose there are a few HDD users that chime in, and they state how great HDD is when used in harsh conditions; fine - it's likely true and I would believe those statements. But I could chime in about how my dino 10w-30 did an outstanding job under brutal conditions as well. Oh - but wait; he's not interested in that.

If we were true BITOGers, we'd press him for more details. We know nothing of his OCI plan, nothing much about his true use, and zero about his environment. Let's be honest about his stated location; "cold winters, hot summers" means absolutely zilch. While I live in IN, I have visited MN in the dead-cold of winter. I take my summer vacations in the searing heat of the west each summer. His statement is nothing but ambiguous. In Florida, 40 deg F is "cold", but our member Johnny would tell you that he's still wearing shorts in WI at those temps. "Cold" and "hot" are words with little meaning unless quantified. Here's what Pablo said:
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I would have a hard time not using DEO 5W-40 here, but I see the need to go with a 5W-30, at least during the colder months.

There is nothing in this thread to indicate how cold is "cold". Paul, perhaps you know the OP from other conversations and therefore where he lives, but the rest of us have no idea. Just how cold is "cold" in winter? How hot is "hot" in summer? Pablo mentions a "need" for 5w-30; how cold is it?

So - in short, few of us have any ability to comment, given the limitations he's put forth. He wants to hear from people who use HDD, and the conditions they operate under. OK - that rules most all of us out. Too bad, because some of us have some relevant experiences that might help him make some decisions, while we don't use HDD.

If he WANTS to use it, I see nothing wrong with it. It might be a huge waste of his money, it may not. But it's his choice. Like most people here, he's chosen his preconcieved lube first, and then he's going to try to cram it into his maintenance plan based upon a limited view of other people's experiences. If he were really interested in making a good lube choice, he'd tell us all about his operational parameters, and then seek out people who operate in similar conditions, and then ask about their lube choices and the data that supports those decisions. Rather, I supsect he's just about convinced himself that he's onto the "best" lube ever known to mankind, and wants to hear about other people who use the same oil, to justify the expenditure. This is, IMO, a thinly veiled "what's the best oil" thread, but it's been sneaked in sideways and disguised.

The engine itself will be just fine with HDD, or just about any other decent HDEO lube for that matter, as long as you use it within it's capabilities.



Edited by dnewton3 (02/21/12 07:02 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2543543 - 02/21/12 08:07 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: ccdhowell]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
It's in my '07 Powerstroke right now, about 4,000 miles on it and plan to go about 4,500 more before I change it with UOA. This is my first run of HDD and it's doing well so far. I tow a 33' toy hauler a couple weekends a month and haven't noticed any oil related problems. I thought it might start using some oil since HDD is thinner than what I've been running, but no problems there. I am still undecided about HDD in the heat of summer, I guess I'll let the UOA I will do in another couple months help me decide.

Powerstrokes have very specific running issues when you use a poort oil and this oil passes that test, but then again I drained Amsoil 5w40 to put this in. Sorry I don't have more.


Can I have it after you drain it?
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
efi live tuned

Student of dnewton's dino teachings

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#2543568 - 02/21/12 08:45 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
^^^^^ bahahahahahahahahahaha!!! ^^^^^ sigh.....

yeah, why drain perfectly good oil? And I agree that asking about one oil while not considering others and giving a "real world" view of his current conditions makes this whole question a moot point.
_________________________
Byron
1997 F-350, 7.3 Diesel, E4OD, Rotella Dino 15w-40, Donaldson ELF7405
1989 Volvo 740 Turbo Wagon
2011 34' Sundance TT



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#2543576 - 02/21/12 08:58 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: Bambam]
ccdhowell Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 831
Loc: Shreveport, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Can I have it after you drain it?


Sure, send me a prepaid shipping container and it's all yours.
_________________________
Blue Lion Racing
XC Quad


Current lineup:
'13 Polaris Scrambler 850HO
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'09 Polaris Outlaw 450MXR

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#2543660 - 02/21/12 11:03 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: Bambam]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
It's in my '07 Powerstroke right now, about 4,000 miles on it and plan to go about 4,500 more before I change it with UOA. This is my first run of HDD and it's doing well so far. I tow a 33' toy hauler a couple weekends a month and haven't noticed any oil related problems. I thought it might start using some oil since HDD is thinner than what I've been running, but no problems there. I am still undecided about HDD in the heat of summer, I guess I'll let the UOA I will do in another couple months help me decide.

Powerstrokes have very specific running issues when you use a poort oil and this oil passes that test, but then again I drained Amsoil 5w40 to put this in. Sorry I don't have more.


Can I have it after you drain it?


crackmeup
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2543691 - 02/21/12 11:31 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: ccdhowell]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Can I have it after you drain it?


Sure, send me a prepaid shipping container and it's all yours.



It might be worth it???? I'll do some checking.
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
efi live tuned

Student of dnewton's dino teachings

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#2544004 - 02/21/12 03:39 PM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 100
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
I have been on bitog for some years and I am colleged in mechanics years ago and I grew up on a farm. I'm younger then 60 and haVe gone from oil era years without additives to modern engine oils. Also know amsoil is not the first in synthetic oil like they tought. Let me also say that I'm not a big beleiver in synthetic oils with modern day conventionals so well refined along with superior additive packages.

My truck 2009 Dodge Cummins 6.7 emissions system gone.

My goals:
: Engine longevity
: 100*F summers, 80 av.
: -35*F winters, 10-20 above av.
: Tow a 14,000 lb 5th approx. 1,200 miles/year
: best mpg towing and nontowing
: best cold engine startup protection, as in not driven for a week or two.
: engine startup as in day to day
: total miles per year under 10,000
: oci once per year.
: I want cold weather startup that's thinner then 10w but the best engine protection at operateing temperature while towing.

The only oil I know that can do all that is a synthtic.



Edited by pwr2tow (02/21/12 03:50 PM)

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#2544255 - 02/21/12 06:50 PM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
I have been on bitog for some years and I am colleged in mechanics years ago and I grew up on a farm. I'm younger then 60 and haVe gone from oil era years without additives to modern engine oils. Also know amsoil is not the first in synthetic oil like they tought. Let me also say that I'm not a big beleiver in synthetic oils with modern day conventionals so well refined along with superior additive packages.

My truck 2009 Dodge Cummins 6.7 emissions system gone.

My goals:
: Engine longevity
: 100*F summers, 80 av.
: -35*F winters, 10-20 above av.
: Tow a 14,000 lb 5th approx. 1,200 miles/year
: best mpg towing and nontowing
: best cold engine startup protection, as in not driven for a week or two.
: engine startup as in day to day
: total miles per year under 10,000
: oci once per year.
: I want cold weather startup that's thinner then 10w but the best engine protection at operateing temperature while towing.

The only oil I know that can do all that is a synthtic.



Then nothing said in this thread has made you see that any good dino will do all of the above just as well. I was once a "synthetics are the only REAL oil" person myself.....then I became educated. I have been running strictly dino for 3 years now, towing various trailers, coast to coast, in extreme cold and extreme heat, idling a lot....A LOT, pulling hard, starting up in 0* with no plug in for block heater, etc, etc, etc.....(and saved a good deal of money).

My point is this. I have yet to have an oil related problem with any of the last three engines, 1 gas and 2 diesel. They have run as well the day I sold the truck as the day that got them. My Dodge has had 40k miles put on it since Oct of 2010 and had the absolute pi$$ run out of it.....not a problem yet on VPB dino at 10k OCI's.

If you want to run a syn for peace of mind, then do so, but no real world results are going to show you anything unless you are willing to start trending UOAs, running for 50k OCIs, and using nothing but the Amsoil of which you ask about. And, AND we still do not know what you are using currently. So, buy your Amsoil and be happy and tell us how it goes.
_________________________
Byron
1997 F-350, 7.3 Diesel, E4OD, Rotella Dino 15w-40, Donaldson ELF7405
1989 Volvo 740 Turbo Wagon
2011 34' Sundance TT



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#2544595 - 02/22/12 04:43 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
The only oil I know that can do all that is a synthtic.


I would beg to differ.

I run dino 10w-30 HDEO in similar circumstances as you state. Actually, I tow about 2x further than what you do (approx 3500 miles a year) in the extreme heat of CO, AZ, UT summers. I've driven to WI and MN in the dead of winter and experienced really cold starts. My truck is used intermittenly (not my primary mode of transport).

I'd ask that you review the following two UOAs ...
Here is a look at my UOAs with dino Rotella 10w-30:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323660&page=1
Here is a look at RL syn with bypass:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2379331&page=1
We both run 2006 Dmax trucks, pull approximately the same loads, ran for the same mileage, in similar circumstances. The real differences? He runs RL with a bypass filter and I run dino Rotella with a normal FF filter. I would completely agree that this is not a scientific lab test; this is a real world comparison with a LOT of similarities except the lube programs. It does not assure you that HDD is going to be any "better" or "worse" than Rotella dino or RL syn. It is merely anecdotal observation (based on incredibly similar vehicles, use and mileage; about as "even" as one can get outside the lab). Comparing and contrasting his RL/Bypass to my dino/Wix, how much "better" did his premium products do in wear metal control? I don't think it's possible to be any harder on an oil than I was this last time and not actually "neglect" the lube or equipment, and yet my wear protection was statistically as solid as his premium syn/bypsas set up.

Now, if you want to hedge your bet just a bit, you could consider T5 from Shell. It has essentially the same cold cranking rating as does Shell's T6 synthetic, for a lot less money. I have every reason to believe HDD would do a great job, too. My point is that there are a lot of lubes that might do well for you. You need to define your total overall maintenance plan, then ask around and see what other people are doing similar to your operational parameters, and then pick a few lubes you'd like to try.

My point from a few posts back seems to be true; you have a preconcieved notion that "only a synthetic" will work in your circumstances. I find that to be untrue; I operate in very similar conditions as you. I'm NOT saying HDD is a bad choice; that's not true at all. I'm saying you should consider many different options. You came into this thread stating you didn't want to hear from anyone but HDD users; you had your mind made up that only one specific synthetic would do the job at hand. I hope that you're now a bit more open-minded and would consider alternatives to HDD.
To summarize:
* cold starts; hot towing (towing mileage is approx 15% of your overall OCI)
* 1 OCI per year at or less than 10k miles
* looking to maximize fuel economy while protecting engine
Those conditions are not unique to synthetics; dinos can do them as well.

Look - the only TRUE way to know which oil is going to be better in your specific situation is to try a few of them, run them as consistently as possible, and do UOAs along the way. Rather than be one of the masses that "guesses", why not actually test under your circumstances, and post up results? You want to try HDD? Go for it! Run it for a season and do a UOA. Then try T5 10w-30. Then try something else. Why not add to the knowledge base of the site? That's what I do; I put my money where my mouth is. I test my theory and post it for everyone to see; I describe the useage factors in great detail.

If you state: "I am going to use HDD because it's the best; no other lube will work" then I'm going to vehemently disagree with you.
If you state: "I am curious; I want to try HDD because I'm going to experiment with different lubes, after talking with a few people that have similar circumstances to me, and then I'll find the lube that is the best fit into my personal maintenance plan based upon protection, viability and costs" then I would applaud your approach.

It is possible that HDD might be the "best" (it is a great product), but you won't know until you try a few options.
BTW - did you kow that Castrol makes Elxion, a 5w-30 PAO HDEO syn? http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int.../0-999/1854.pdf
I'm not saying that it would be any "better" or "worse" than anything else, but HDD is not the ONLY product in the very narrow market niche you seek.

P.S. You wouldn't happen to live in Absarokee, would you?


Edited by dnewton3 (02/22/12 06:27 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2544662 - 02/22/12 08:03 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: dnewton3]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 100
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
Okay, I didn't know (never seen in my area) another 5w 30 diesel oil. The thread topic should have started who makes a 5w30 diesel oil and how do they compare.

Then you see the subject line would still come around to: their all so simular just pick the one on sale and go with it.

I beleive just good enough is not good enough when you live in a very rural area and that vehicle needs to perform no matter if its getting groceries or a life and death situation.

I know there's alot of amsoil haters out there and that's also one of the reasons my title is what it is. Just trying to keep the rif-raf out.

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#2544672 - 02/22/12 08:17 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
rufushusky Offline


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Mass.
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Okay, I didn't know (never seen in my area) another 5w 30 diesel oil. The thread topic should have started who makes a 5w30 diesel oil and how do they compare.


Castrol actually makes a 5w-30 diesel oil as well...but I am sure that is not cheap either.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82915561&contentId=7019852
_________________________
2002 Ford F-350 ECLB SRW 4R100 4X4
HPX 6637 Stancor 6.0 trans cooler

Sold: 04.5 Dodge CTD

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#2544674 - 02/22/12 08:20 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 100
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
Forgot to add I'm north of south dakota but no eh.


And it really doesn't matter what I have been useing since I want to try a 30 weight oil and get the same wear protection of a 40 weight. I.m very skeptical of the wear performance of any 30 weight in tough towing conditions.

That brings on another question, are there any 0-30 ci+4, cj4 diesel oils I can purchase in the U.S.?




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#2544713 - 02/22/12 08:56 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: pwr2tow]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Did you look over my UOA using dino 10w-30? Towing in heat is not an issue. And, there are other UOAs here where guys use 10w-30 in PSDs and ISBs. Look them over as well. Some use JD oils in 10w-30 dino with great results as well.

Your fear of thinner oils is somewhat unfounded. But don't feel bad; you're not alone in that regard.

This forum is good for discussion about HDEOs. But if you really want facts, go wander around the UOA portion of this site. Why ask questions when you can see actual results?

Again, look over my UOA; I clearly define the significant harsh use I put my truck through last year. It would be inconcieveable to be any "harder" on my oil, and not abuse it.

My UOAs in a Dmax with 10w-30 dino HDEO:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323660&page=1

A UOA with 10w-30 HDEO in a Cummins:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2231310&page=1

UOAs with 10w-30 HDEO in a Ford PSD:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966220&page=1


For the last time, I'll state that HDD is a perfectly good fluid and would work well. So would the Elixion I noted. So would a lot of other products.

Your fear of thinner HDEOs during hard use is understandable, given the "oil bigotry" of the HDEO market, but it is, in fact, unfounded. Do you suppose your fear of being stranded (in what I presume is ND) is any differnt from my fear of having my family stranded in the 100+ deg heat of the desolate outstretches of UT in July while pulling my trailer off road to find an isolated forrest service area to camp?


Edited by dnewton3 (02/22/12 09:01 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2544833 - 02/22/12 10:31 AM Re: amsoil HDD 5-30 users please check in. [Re: dnewton3]
pwr2tow Offline


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 100
Loc: -38*F winter, 118*F summer
Okay so now we've resolved the 30 weight issue and hot weather. Now how about -30F. I want the best pour point since flow point is usually 30* higher?

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