Mobil 1 5W/30, 10,200mi, 2010 F150 4.6L

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Great UOA and useful example to a fellow Modular owner. 3 ppm iron per 1,000 miles is good wear too. I wouldn't be afraid to run another 2K on that. Plenty of everything left.

I disagree with you on the premise that 5W30 is somehow "better" than 5W20, but I have proved that a 30 grade (I am running a 10W30 right now) works. In no way do I think it's optimal. Plus, as mentioned above, your M1 was barely in 30 category at the time of the UOA. In my use at least, 5W20 was very good. I did a 10K run on RP previously with similar results (and lower iron ( : < ). My 5.4L oil temp most often runs below 200F, meaning a 20 grade is running in 30 grade territory most of the time anyway. On the occasions I used my truck hard in hot weather, max oil temps still hovered at or below 212. A 30, especially a thick one like I use now, is running in 40 grade. I did check via datalogging to determine that the VVT, which was the worry in my case, operates normally in my situation, but on cold starts the heavier oil delivers some seriously high oil pressures, likely putting the oil pump into bypass at times.

As to warranty issues, if they want to be persnickety, they can deny a claim, at least initially, on two ground in your case; the 5W30 and especially the 10K-plus interval. I'm no Chicken Little on these things but you could be faced with having to push hard if there were issues. You might lose in the end if there were grey areas. A lot depends on your dealer and what were to happen. Just an FYI. But ultimately, I'm like you. I'd rather make an informed choice and live with the results instead of hershy-squirting about warranties. They ARE our trucks, after all.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Here we go again.....

Why on earth would you risk having warranty problem on a newer Ford vehicle that calls for 5W-20 oil, changed at 7500-mile intervals?

You sir, are an idiot...but don't worry, you're not alone!


Oh yes "here we go again". Don't call me an idiot just because I'm doing something outside of my 2010 warranty. (offense removed - mod) do something out side of the box and not having confidence in the product you purchase or any confidence in yourself to do any experimenting. If you don't like the idea of what I'm doing that's ok just keep your opinion to yourself.

Also let me add. I have consulted many people very intimate with the Triton's and rest assured these engines are rated up to a 20w/50. I'm just wanting to know how long M1 can used efficiently.
 
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There is some concern with the thinner oils.

Here: http://www.trucknews.com/news/work-has-begun-on-new-pc-11-motor-oil-category/1000894246/#

"Scuffing/Adhesive Wear - Currently there is also no test for this when qualifying a motor oil. There is concern that the thinner films of lower viscosity oils could pose an issue and so a test on scuffing and adhesive wear needs to be created.

In short, the industry is looking for motor oils to contribute to improving fuel economy but want to ensure there are testing procedures in place to ensure this does not compromise durability."
 
Originally Posted By: 1medic
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Also let me add. I have consulted many people very intimate with the Triton's and rest assured these engines are rated up to a 20w/50. I'm just wanting to know how long M1 can used efficiently.



As have I, but there's a big difference in "what will work" and optimal. We've been through this a hundred times here on BITOG and, as yet, it can't be proven by anyone that the 5W20 is anything less than adequate if not optimal in the way it works in most Modular engines (there are application and operational difference that dictate another choice. I see you have 19 posts here, so before you dig your heels in here, I suggest you do some reading of what has been debated many times before here. Might open your mind a little. I'm with you on your right to use the oil you choose and on being chuffed for being called an idiot. Doesn't make you right on the 5W20 issue, however.
 
I would like to hear more about the 20w-50 application in a typical Triton engine; frankly I find that hard to believe and would like to know about the source(s) and the specific notables.

Generally, moving up or down one grade in vis isn't going to be detrimental, especially when the equipment is often multi-spec'd for grades. But going way to one extreme or the other probably isn't good and I don't see how a 50 grade is going to do well at all.

Some engines were developed way back in the day when 5w-30 was prevelant; that's true of the modular Tritons. But things also change, even when the overall architecture of the equipment stays the same. Ford spec's 5w-20 in most applications now, and there are a multitude of UOAs showing that it's neither better nor worse than 5w-30 in most any application when spec'd by the OEM. But I doubt you'd get Ford to buy off "officially" by using a 20w-50 where a 5w-20 is the only current spec, and would suspect warranty might be at risk.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I would like to hear more about the 20w-50 application in a typical Triton engine; frankly I find that hard to believe and would like to know about the source(s) and the specific notables.

Generally, moving up or down one grade in vis isn't going to be detrimental, especially when the equipment is often multi-spec'd for grades. But going way to one extreme or the other probably isn't good and I don't see how a 50 grade is going to do well at all.

Some engines were developed way back in the day when 5w-30 was prevelant; that's true of the modular Tritons. But things also change, even when the overall architecture of the equipment stays the same. Ford spec's 5w-20 in most applications now, and there are a multitude of UOAs showing that it's neither better nor worse than 5w-30 in most any application when spec'd by the OEM. But I doubt you'd get Ford to buy off "officially" by using a 20w-50 where a 5w-20 is the only current spec, and would suspect warranty might be at risk.


Your not going to hear more about it. It's not "official". I'm done with debates. Run what you want.......................
 
I would hope we would all agree that for there to be a valid warranty denial it would have to be based upon damage CAUSED by the "out of spec" component...

I don't think a Triton V8 can be damaged merely by using 20W-50 oil. Maybe in Nome, AK. Probably not in CA.

Whay about just draining the oil and replacing with 5W-20 before a warranty visit to the Stealership?
 
1medic: With the one notable exception, and I suspect he was having a bad day or something, our debate wasn't intended to be taken personally. We're just a bunch of happy-go-lucky oil geeks pedantically debating minutiae. We're truly happy to have you here but, after all, you did ask for thoughts. If you didn't like them, well, so be it. Either back away or prove us wrong. It's always good around here to do a little recon before you come on strong with a highly debatable point that pushes a lot of buttons. You want to start you debate with a cool barrel, good cover and your full magazines stacked close by. ( : < ) As I said, most of us are just geeks and we love to be proven wrong. Who knows, you might be the guy but expect a strong debate.
 
Whenever our Australian friends chime in, they can talk about how heavy of an oil that the modular engines are using down there. I bet it's Xw40wt, minimum, maybe Xw50wt.

That being said, lots of UOA's out there that say 5w20 works fine in Ford modular engines. I would run it if I had one.
 
Hard to understand why a bunch of you went ape (edit-mod) over a good UOA, so it isn't the specked oil, big deal... If it voids the warranty it ain't no skin off your noses...

I run 5w-30 in my 2V modulars ('98 & '07) and M1 0W-40 in my Marauder... Only one with a warranty was the '07, which I never worried about...
 
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Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
No makeup oil! only American engineering can do that!


the engine also features fairly low specific output per liter, maybe that has something to do with it...
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
No makeup oil! only American engineering can do that!

I was quite surprised and pleased as well.

I'll be courious to see if Iron reduces in the next UOA. The truck had 14,800mi (2 prior oil changes) on it at the start of this UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: 1medic
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I would like to hear more about the 20w-50 application in a typical Triton engine; frankly I find that hard to believe and would like to know about the source(s) and the specific notables.

Generally, moving up or down one grade in vis isn't going to be detrimental, especially when the equipment is often multi-spec'd for grades. But going way to one extreme or the other probably isn't good and I don't see how a 50 grade is going to do well at all.

Some engines were developed way back in the day when 5w-30 was prevelant; that's true of the modular Tritons. But things also change, even when the overall architecture of the equipment stays the same. Ford spec's 5w-20 in most applications now, and there are a multitude of UOAs showing that it's neither better nor worse than 5w-30 in most any application when spec'd by the OEM. But I doubt you'd get Ford to buy off "officially" by using a 20w-50 where a 5w-20 is the only current spec, and would suspect warranty might be at risk.


Your not going to hear more about it. It's not "official". I'm done with debates. Run what you want.......................


My apologies if I somehow offended you; was not my intent.

I was curious about your sources.
You stated this:
Originally Posted By: 1medic
I have consulted many people very intimate with the Triton's and rest assured these engines are rated up to a 20w/50.

I wanted to know who was "very intimate" with the Tritons and what their qualifications were. I was interested to know what they meant by "rated up to" as well.

The modular motors came out in 1991 with the first 4.6L in the Towncar. The engine family then filtered over the years into a wide range of products. The "Triton" is the truck version of the modulars; beefed up a bit. I worked for Ford from 1990 to 2006; I was NEVER aware about a "20w/50" application for the 4.6L/5.4L/6.8L engines. While I did not work in the engine plants (Romeo and Windsor), I did have direct access to the Ford engineering database and all the spec manuals and documents. The Tritons were used in F-series trucks, vans and some odd applications such as smaller busses, etc. I am familiar with both 5w-30 and 5w-20 oil specs for the Triton; never seen anything outside of that.

You should realize, when you make such a infamous claim, you're going to be challenged. I find it hard to believe your statement. But, in the interest of fairness, I'm willing to hear your point of view. All I'm asking is that you quote your sources and state the facts. I would find it acceptable to read about owner's manuals where they could be validated, articles by Ford engineers, etc. In the absence of such, I'm going to be left in a postion to doubt your claim.

That does not mean you cannot run what you want to run; no one here would take that away from you. But running a 20w-50 in a Ford under current warranty will give the OEM a reason to pause and likely deny warranty.

What most people don't understand about the M/M act (commonly and incorrectly thought of as the "lemon law") is how it defines the obligations of both the warrantor and warrantee. When one follows the OEM warranty conditions, should there be a failure, the burden of proof is upon the OEM. But when one does NOT follow the OEM warranty conditions, then should there be an issue, the burden of proof is upon the warrantee. If Ford spec's 5w-20, and you choose to use a 10w-30, Ford can deny your warranty claim, and it is up to you to prove that your selection did not cause the failure in question. Ultimately, you might be able to do so, but you are in for a LONG, EXPENSIVE arbitration or court battle; they have WAY more resources (time, money, and engineering) than does the individual. Or, you could turn to the lube maker to assist with warranty issues, but they (almost without exception) state to follow OEM specifications. If you use 10w-40 where Ford spec's 5w-20, the lube maker is likely going to back away from you as well. People simply don't understand that it is all about the burden of proof. The M/M act actually is a tool to assist the OEMs in defining the limitations of their warranty. It does give warrantees some rights, but it actually protects the warrantor moreso than the warrantee. I know this intimately because I once engaged the Indiana State Atty General in a product complaint once. Luckily, I had followed all conditions; the burden was upon the OEM.

All that in mind, you can run whatever you want to run in your Ford, but don't expect Ford to grant you immunity for wandering off the reservation, as it were.

So, I asked what your sources were, and what their credentials are. Again, sorry if you feel antagonized; that wasn't the point. I simply doubt your claim and wanted to see any proof you could offer.
 
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Dave: I think the basis of 1medic's POV might be based on some information commonly seen on the net. The original source was a former Ford engine division person who has claimed, among other things, that engine operation was tested with a variety of viscosities. That's likely true, as it would make sense they would want to test the limits. This individual (I cannot recall his name) also makes some claims about 5W20 testing not being entirely successful back when it was done in the '90s and that the change was politically motivated. Typical conspiracy theory stuff. I have seen old forum posts by this individual, who now works in the HP Parts industry, but to my knowledge everything is just his word with no documentation. Needless to say, this person is often quoted and misquoted. I'd tend to be more a believer in that POV if we had a bunch of Ford Modular engine failures due to 5W20 oil. He's probably correct when it comes to high performance applications, as anyone with some oil knowledge would surmise, and I suspect he is being taken out of context often.
 
Originally Posted By: 1medic
I like to show what can be done outside of conventional comfort levels.

Not to start a rant or debate, but based upon what I read (between the lines) in many posts, it seems to me that 5W-20 is out of the "comfort" level for many...

Just my
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Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 1medic
I like to show what can be done outside of conventional comfort levels.

Not to start a rant or debate, but based upon what I read (between the lines) in many posts, it seems to me that 5W-20 is out of the "comfort" level for many...

Just my
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Comfort is way over blown. All I can say is M1 5-20 worked for me in the 70s as it does now.
 
Looks like you are doing a great job. Name calling on BOBISTHEOILGUY.com???? Really???? Thanks for posting a great UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: 1medic
I like to show what can be done outside of conventional comfort levels.

Not to start a rant or debate, but based upon what I read (between the lines) in many posts, it seems to me that 5W-20 is out of the "comfort" level for many...

Just my
49.gif



Comfort is way over blown. All I can say is M1 5-20 worked for me in the 70s as it does now.


And therein lays the bulk of most all BITOG debates.

People often confuse wants and needs. The topic of which grade is "best" is no different from which oil brand or base stock is "best". Frankly, there often isn't one single "best", but there are many fluids that are well more than good enough to assure safe, long lasting protection.

When people cannot articulately define what is situationally needed, they supplement the void of information with what they want (feel comfortable with).
 
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dnewton3; Quit wasting your time. This is ridiculous. You may have had access to certain information but clearly it was not all the information. Rest assured my information is from Ford Motor Co. employees. Not the internet

Also, remember Ford (officially) allows up to a 10w/40 for the Tritons

So enough about oil weights and warranty's. The numbers I gave were what was told to me and seeing that you can use 10w/40 doesn't worry me if I had to use 20w/50. Remember these engines are in service in many parts of the world.

So why don't you befriend a few people that were part of the Triton line design team and see if they have the same info.
 
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