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#2527925 - 02/07/12 06:20 AM 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure
04SE Offline


Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 532
Loc: Central IL
A friend of mine has a 2009 Dodge 2500 that he bought new. The gentleman is in his sixties and has never used any type of aftermarket tuner or performance accessories. Oil changes have been performed at the dealer since day one. The truck is his grocery getter and toy hauler. The turbo just failed after 27,000 miles. At first Dodge said it was from "lack of maintenance." That lasted about 1 second when he produced all of his maintenance tickets FROM the dealership. Then they said it was from "lack of use." Are you kidding? The turbo failed from "lack of use." HAHAHAHA???? What????

They ended up replacing it under warranty and told him that it had "clogged up" from lack of use. They told him he needs to load the motor up more or buy a gas truck. This truck hauls a skid steer, cattle trailer and camper. He asked the service manager just what exactly he needed to tow/haul that would "clean the turbo." I guess the service manager did not have a good answer.
_________________________
2002 Avalon XLS | 1MZ-FE | 108,000 | Mobil 1 5w30 & TG3600
2009 Camry LE | 2AZ-FE | 85,000 | Mobil 1 0w20 & TG4386




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#2527927 - 02/07/12 06:26 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
Colt45ws Offline


Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 7449
Loc: Central Washington
They are trying to find any reason to wiggle out of fault for the bad turbo.
More likely it was just some sort of defect it had from day 1 and finally reared its ugly head. Stuff happens. But instead of owning up to it they are trying to push blame onto the owner. Which is pointless because they warrantied the turbo anyway..soo why?
_________________________
-Colton
2004 Ford Crown Vic LX, 81k "Tank"
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI, 162k "Highwayman" (Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42)

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#2527942 - 02/07/12 06:49 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
rufushusky Offline


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Mass.
Originally Posted By: 04SE
A friend of mine has a 2009 Dodge 2500 that he bought new. The gentleman is in his sixties and has never used any type of aftermarket tuner or performance accessories. Oil changes have been performed at the dealer since day one. The truck is his grocery getter and toy hauler. The turbo just failed after 27,000 miles. At first Dodge said it was from "lack of maintenance." That lasted about 1 second when he produced all of his maintenance tickets FROM the dealership. Then they said it was from "lack of use." Are you kidding? The turbo failed from "lack of use." HAHAHAHA???? What????

They ended up replacing it under warranty and told him that it had "clogged up" from lack of use. They told him he needs to load the motor up more or buy a gas truck. This truck hauls a skid steer, cattle trailer and camper. He asked the service manager just what exactly he needed to tow/haul that would "clean the turbo." I guess the service manager did not have a good answer.


Geez...got to love dealerships! I have heard of the 6.7 needing the turbo cleaned cause the 6.7 runs soooo sooty with its heavy EGR.

_________________________
2002 Ford F-350 ECLB SRW 4R100 4X4
HPX 6637 Stancor 6.0 trans cooler

Sold: 04.5 Dodge CTD

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#2527963 - 02/07/12 07:51 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4284
Loc: Michigan
He should pull off the EGR system.
It will stop fouling the engine with soot and get better fuel economy.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#2527970 - 02/07/12 08:03 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: A_Harman]
2004tdigls Offline


Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 262
Loc: maple ridge, bc
you don't have to remove it, just turn it off with a tuner, problem solved

http://www.hsperformance.com/xrt-pro/

the dodge egr system is poorly designed

http://www.mycarlady.com/2010/01/29/dodge-6-7-diesel-class-action-lawsuit-filed/

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#2527971 - 02/07/12 08:05 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
There is some truth to the loading it up, the less it's worked the worse off it is, but Dodge is being petty.
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
efi live tuned

Student of dnewton's dino teachings

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#2527974 - 02/07/12 08:09 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 2004tdigls]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1694
Loc: Houston, Texas
It's possible that his 09 has an old style turbo. They made some revisions to the turbo to make it so the sliding nozzle part doesn't seize up with soot. Also make sure he has the J35 recall done and he should be up to date with all the programming.
_________________________
2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.


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#2528024 - 02/07/12 09:08 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Possible DPF malfunction? I did hear if the 6.7 DPF equipped Ram Cummins motors aren't worked hard regularly that they can clog-one of the reasons I bought a used 5.9 instead.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2528045 - 02/07/12 09:30 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: Bambam]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: Bambam
There is some truth to the loading it up, the less it's worked the worse off it is, but Dodge is being petty.
Not to be political, but the vast number of Dodge dealers are pretty clueless when it comes to diesels. I had to travel to dealers outside Cincinnati to get easily diagnosed problems fixed under warranty on my '02 (bad injection pump/VP44), fully half the dealers here got purged in the bailout.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2528051 - 02/07/12 09:32 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
Remember the wonderful '70s and '80s as OEMs struggled to meet new emissions regs and car buyers did the R&D? This is the modern diesel owner's equivalent period.
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#2528066 - 02/07/12 09:48 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: Jim Allen]
bradepb Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 797
Loc: Clinton Twp. MI
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Remember the wonderful '70s and '80s as OEMs struggled to meet new emissions regs and car buyers did the R&D? This is the modern diesel owner's equivalent period.


You got that right. I work in a fleet of medium and light duty diesels and we are going back to gas for the light duty, with the increased cost for diesel engines we wont break even till 90,000 miles and most units never see that.
_________________________
12 buick regal 2.4 9,000 free dealer changes for 2 years
04 escape 4x4 3.0 125,000 5w30 VWB Wix
04 malibu 3.5 108,000 5w30 VWB Wix

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#2528086 - 02/07/12 10:04 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 7228
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: 04SE
A friend of mine has a 2009 Dodge 2500 that he bought new. The gentleman is in his sixties and has never used any type of aftermarket tuner or performance accessories. Oil changes have been performed at the dealer since day one. The truck is his grocery getter and toy hauler. The turbo just failed after 27,000 miles. At first Dodge said it was from "lack of maintenance." That lasted about 1 second when he produced all of his maintenance tickets FROM the dealership. Then they said it was from "lack of use." Are you kidding? The turbo failed from "lack of use." HAHAHAHA???? What????

They ended up replacing it under warranty and told him that it had "clogged up" from lack of use. They told him he needs to load the motor up more or buy a gas truck. This truck hauls a skid steer, cattle trailer and camper. He asked the service manager just what exactly he needed to tow/haul that would "clean the turbo." I guess the service manager did not have a good answer.


I think this service is a epidemic for Dodge dealerships and their maintenance department's. At least from my experience, I do not know if this was from Daimler's cooperate style or what but from my experience with Dodge dealerships this is more normal behavior rather than the exception. The other theory I have on this is a lot of Dodge franchise dealership owners are tools. I do not like to paint with a broad brush but this is from my experience with Chrysler.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

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#2528231 - 02/07/12 12:33 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: dave1251]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 04SE
A friend of mine has a 2009 Dodge 2500 that he bought new. The gentleman is in his sixties and has never used any type of aftermarket tuner or performance accessories. Oil changes have been performed at the dealer since day one. The truck is his grocery getter and toy hauler. The turbo just failed after 27,000 miles. At first Dodge said it was from "lack of maintenance." That lasted about 1 second when he produced all of his maintenance tickets FROM the dealership. Then they said it was from "lack of use." Are you kidding? The turbo failed from "lack of use." HAHAHAHA???? What????

They ended up replacing it under warranty and told him that it had "clogged up" from lack of use. They told him he needs to load the motor up more or buy a gas truck. This truck hauls a skid steer, cattle trailer and camper. He asked the service manager just what exactly he needed to tow/haul that would "clean the turbo." I guess the service manager did not have a good answer.


I think this service is a epidemic for Dodge dealerships and their maintenance department's. At least from my experience, I do not know if this was from Daimler's cooperate style or what but from my experience with Dodge dealerships this is more normal behavior rather than the exception. The other theory I have on this is a lot of Dodge franchise dealership owners are tools. I do not like to paint with a broad brush but this is from my experience with Chrysler.
They ARE tools!! If you find one that has a clue, be sure and use them for everything and try to keep them around. The problem with the bad ones is not only do they have no clue on diesels at all, they will try to charge you "diagnostic fees" when they can't figure out what's wrong!
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2528445 - 02/07/12 02:59 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5627
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: 04SE
A friend of mine has a 2009 Dodge 2500 that he bought new. The gentleman is in his sixties and has never used any type of aftermarket tuner or performance accessories. Oil changes have been performed at the dealer since day one. The truck is his grocery getter and toy hauler. The turbo just failed after 27,000 miles. At first Dodge said it was from "lack of maintenance." That lasted about 1 second when he produced all of his maintenance tickets FROM the dealership. Then they said it was from "lack of use." Are you kidding? The turbo failed from "lack of use." HAHAHAHA???? What????

They ended up replacing it under warranty and told him that it had "clogged up" from lack of use. They told him he needs to load the motor up more or buy a gas truck. This truck hauls a skid steer, cattle trailer and camper. He asked the service manager just what exactly he needed to tow/haul that would "clean the turbo." I guess the service manager did not have a good answer.



Mmmmmmm.....
There may be a hint of truth to the "low use" factor, but overall I doubt the solution would be to "load the motor up more". The 6.7L Cummins does not use SCR/Urea Injection. Therefore, they rely heavily on EGR to control temps and emmisions. Running the engine on a "heavy load" will only make it consume even more EGR, in stock form.

Now, the "low use" factor has a small bit to do with it. Whatever soot/carbon is in the turbo will have more time to "solidify" and get caked/coked/stuck/etc with long down time periods. My neighbor's sick-point-oh PSD has had 3 (three) turbos replaced under his extended warranty. He went through a period of low use from being out of work, and it promptly stuck that turbo twice. Of course, a large contributing factor to that is also the poor EGR/oil cooler heat exchanger set up, which just exacerbates the problem. He has replaced many components, added a coolant bypass filter, and now drives it to work every day. No more problems. So, yes, there may be a tinge of truth to the "low use" contributing factor, but if Dodge thought that was a true issue, they should have to call it out in the warranty statement; they don't, so they cannot fall back on it. (And, that would scare away a lot of part-time diesel users like me, too). My Dmax sees mostly intermittent use, but I've not succumbed to a stuck turbo (not a problem that plauges the Dmax).

In general, it's clear the dealership was trying to avoid all issues by laying blame wherever it could. I would have loved to have been there after they had to eat the whole "lack of maintenance" comment; what a bunch of losers. I'd find a new dealership if at all possible.


Edited by dnewton3 (02/07/12 03:02 PM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2528685 - 02/07/12 06:38 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
DrDusty86 Offline


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 1491
Loc: TX
Turn off the EGR. It's a simple fix. For the record: I don't like dodges either. My 24V CTD was a complete JUNK PILE, motor/body/drivetrain. never again will I waste my money on a Dodge.

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#2528735 - 02/07/12 07:26 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
subiedriver Offline


Registered: 06/04/10
Posts: 517
Loc: Colorado
I'll take a Cummins over a 6.0 powerjoke anyday of the week, that motor was certified junk.
_________________________
2004 Subaru Legacy 4 door, 2.5, 140,000 miles
Always Mobil 1, since I bought it at 80,000 miles.
30 mpg

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#2528761 - 02/07/12 07:46 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: subiedriver]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26433
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
I'll take a Cummins over a 6.0 powerjoke anyday of the week, that motor was certified junk.


If you deleted the EGR (sound familiar?) and on the early years, upgraded the head studs, they were actually pretty decent engines.

But yes, stock, they had issues. Particularly with the EGR stuff.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
06 Charger R/T

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#2528874 - 02/07/12 09:26 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
subiedriver Offline


Registered: 06/04/10
Posts: 517
Loc: Colorado
You shouldn't have to spend 2 grand on a diesel engine to make it reliable, lol. I've never liked intertrashional [censored] motors, lmao!
_________________________
2004 Subaru Legacy 4 door, 2.5, 140,000 miles
Always Mobil 1, since I bought it at 80,000 miles.
30 mpg

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#2528888 - 02/07/12 09:45 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
cronk Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Watertown, New York
That dealership is at least guilty of poor service. If the dealer maintained the truck, they had no base to claim "lack of maintenance". All they had to do is check the computer, pretty much all dealership computer software has owner/vehicle service history. All they had to do is press about 3 keys on the computer and it would be in front of their face.
To make baseless accusations like that without checking the facts if very unprofessional.
_________________________
1993 Chevy C1500
1999 Saturn SL2
2000 Nissan Quest
1986 Pontiac Trans Am
1940 Ford 9N Tractor

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#2529019 - 02/07/12 11:37 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: subiedriver]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26433
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
You shouldn't have to spend 2 grand on a diesel engine to make it reliable, lol. I've never liked intertrashional [censored] motors, lmao!


Well the EGR delete isn't 2G's, LOL, but yeah, if you have to do the head studs I imagine you are up there.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
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#2529061 - 02/08/12 12:25 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: subiedriver]
CDX825 Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 107
Loc: Litchfield, Ohio
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
You shouldn't have to spend 2 grand on a diesel engine to make it reliable, lol. I've never liked intertrashional [censored] motors, lmao!


International makes some of the best diesel engines in the world! They own the medium duty truck market. Nothing trash about them.
_________________________
1984 Ford F250 6.9 Diesel C6 2WD Rotella T 15W40 NTZ Bypass Filter

1992 Ford F150 5.8 4x4 Rotella T5 10W30


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#2529136 - 02/08/12 05:04 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
SteveSRT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15143
Loc: Sunny Florida
Intertrashional? Powerjoke?

So cute, these nicknames. They really contribute to the meaningful nature of our discussion.

Back OT, this is starting to sound like much more of a service problem. Sounds as though the dealer has some service department issues.
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#2529142 - 02/08/12 05:23 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: CDX825]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: CDX825
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
You shouldn't have to spend 2 grand on a diesel engine to make it reliable, lol. I've never liked intertrashional [censored] motors, lmao!


International makes some of the best diesel engines in the world! They own the medium duty truck market. Nothing trash about them.


AGREED. International is above them all in the medium to large diesel engines!
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
efi live tuned

Student of dnewton's dino teachings

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#2529147 - 02/08/12 05:42 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: Bambam]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Originally Posted By: CDX825
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
You shouldn't have to spend 2 grand on a diesel engine to make it reliable, lol. I've never liked intertrashional [censored] motors, lmao!


International makes some of the best diesel engines in the world! They own the medium duty truck market. Nothing trash about them.


AGREED. International is above them all in the medium to large diesel engines!
Maybe, but if you have ever had a 6.0 or 6.4 PSD, i could definitely understand frustration with the engine. They are some of the worst engineered, hardest to work on engines ever made!
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2529188 - 02/08/12 07:29 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4284
Loc: Michigan
I have my own stories about the local Dodge dealer.
My best example of attempted customer abuse was when my truck was suffering from off-idle hesitation and displaying a TPS fault code on my programmer. Since I was in the middle of a thrash to get my car ready for a track event, I didn't think I had the time to fix the truck. So I took it to my local dealer, and he quoted my $860 to fix it. I knew this was Bee Ess from the start because I had replaced the TPS assembly a few years before for $350. I ordered a replacement sensor online for $180 and replaced it in about 15 minutes using no tools more complicated than a Phillips screwdriver. Then I started the truck up, hooked it to my trailer, and did a 1600-mile round trip tow.

90% of the dealers out there are useless.


Edited by A_Harman (02/08/12 07:30 AM)
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#2529222 - 02/08/12 08:09 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: bullwinkle]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Originally Posted By: CDX825
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
You shouldn't have to spend 2 grand on a diesel engine to make it reliable, lol. I've never liked intertrashional [censored] motors, lmao!


International makes some of the best diesel engines in the world! They own the medium duty truck market. Nothing trash about them.


AGREED. International is above them all in the medium to large diesel engines!
Maybe, but if you have ever had a 6.0 or 6.4 PSD, i could definitely understand frustration with the engine. They are some of the worst engineered, hardest to work on engines ever made!


Are they International made? I thought they were made by someone else now?
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
efi live tuned

Student of dnewton's dino teachings

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#2529254 - 02/08/12 08:44 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: Bambam]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26433
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Bambam


Are they International made? I thought they were made by someone else now?


The 6.7L "Scorpion" Diesel, which Ford is now using, is an in-house engine. The 6.0L (VT365) and the 6.4L (Maxxforce) are/were International products.
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#2529405 - 02/08/12 10:56 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
subiedriver Offline


Registered: 06/04/10
Posts: 517
Loc: Colorado
Cummins owns the commercial diesel truck market. Nothing is more bulletproof than the 5.9 CTD. Its too bad they had to put it in a lousy truck, lol.

The vast majority of military heavy vehicles run Cummins diesels. The reason.....reliability.

Ford = great overall truck, [censored] diesel.

Dodge = lousy truck, bulletproof diesel.


Edited by subiedriver (02/08/12 10:56 AM)
_________________________
2004 Subaru Legacy 4 door, 2.5, 140,000 miles
Always Mobil 1, since I bought it at 80,000 miles.
30 mpg

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#2529813 - 02/08/12 05:53 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
cronk Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Watertown, New York
Chevy Duramax=great truck and great engine.
_________________________
1993 Chevy C1500
1999 Saturn SL2
2000 Nissan Quest
1986 Pontiac Trans Am
1940 Ford 9N Tractor

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#2529821 - 02/08/12 06:08 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: subiedriver]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26433
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
Cummins owns the commercial diesel truck market. Nothing is more bulletproof than the 5.9 CTD. Its too bad they had to put it in a lousy truck, lol.

The vast majority of military heavy vehicles run Cummins diesels. The reason.....reliability.

Ford = great overall truck, [censored] diesel.

Dodge = lousy truck, bulletproof diesel.


Well, to be fair, the new Dodge trucks are quite nice, and the new Ford engine appears to be quite problem free at this point in time.

We'll see how that plays out.
_________________________
Network Engineer
02 Expedition
01 BMW ///M5
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#2530061 - 02/08/12 10:00 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
DrDusty86 Offline


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 1491
Loc: TX
Our dodges 90',91',95',98',05' have had more axle/wheel bearing failures than fords we've had. The doors rattle, the dashes crack-95',98,05', the 05 HVAC has a mind of its own. The cargo/3rd brake light has leaked on the 3 later models, the electrical/power systems are horrid /w power window and radio issues. The trans G-360,NV 4500, NV 5600 are very imprecise shifting compared to the ford PSD ZF-6. Alternators have all been replaced under 100k miles.

THEY ARE JUST JUNK! Period

Give me a 6.0 and I' will do the ugrades/deletes and be WAY better off.
It's true about dodge having a 500k mile motor in a 50k mile truck..atleast through 05'.
Ford's body and running gear is WAY WAY tougher.

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#2530137 - 02/08/12 11:21 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: cronk]
Joseph_S37 Offline


Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 233
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: cronk
Chevy Duramax=great truck and great engine.


approved cheers
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#2537801 - 02/15/12 04:37 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
oliver88 Offline


Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 283
Loc: ohio
I have owned and run all three domestic diesels and tow heavy with them...IMHO the Ford was by far the most troublesome..not just the 6.0 engine but the entire running gear and cheap little knick knacks...The Chevy was pretty good, no real issues except losing a rear end at 100K miles. Decent truck but not as stable when towing as the Dodge and Ford. Dodge 6.7 has been the all around winner in all of the categories that are important to us in our use. It's realible and powerful. ALL OF them have DPF, soot, turbo issues, etc. if you are not working them hard like they were built to do! DO NOT buy this truck and haul a few sheets of plywood from Home Depot and then expect to not have emission related problems. get a gas engine. Work them hard and do the scheduled maintenance and you should be happy...You can get a lemon in any of the Big Three trucks...Some of the [censored] you hear online is just that...[censored]...Chevy people hate Fords...Ford people hate Dodge...etc, etc...I owned each with an open mind, and decided which one worked best for my particular application...I take care of it and it has treated me well...I would own another Dodge Cummins 6.7 without hesitation.

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#2537815 - 02/15/12 04:56 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
SteveSRT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15143
Loc: Sunny Florida
Interesting thread.

I ended up with my 09 Dmax after hanging at a bunch of RV related sites and actually asking some of the big wheelers we met all over the country.
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Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
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#2537881 - 02/15/12 06:19 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: oliver88]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11625
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: oliver88
I take care of it and it has treated me well...I would own another Dodge Cummins 6.7 without hesitation.


Not to derail, but I must agree with your point. They all make some pretty fine trucks, and have noticeably evolved over the years. I remember years back how bargain basement the Dodge trucks used to look compared to the Chevs and GMCs. Back in the early 1990s, the Chevs and GMCs had the "Cadillac" interior quality. Dodges now are beautiful inside, and Chevy had, at least for a time, some pretty awful plasticky interiors.

As for rear ends and other miscellaneous problems and lemons, sure, any of them can have a problem. My dad's Chev from the "nice interior" era had leak issues. A friend's Dodge diesel had rear end issues. Not pleasant, but such is life. Both vehicles were used for some pretty severe towing.
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Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2538288 - 02/16/12 05:17 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5627
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Interestingly, over the last decade, the Dodge and GM trucks both use the AAM 11.5" axle. (There are a few minor differences, but they are essentially the same). Any discussion of one being "better" than the other would be purely anecdotal.
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#2538481 - 02/16/12 10:12 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
Overall, the Cummins is and has been the most reliable engine and the most flexible when it comes to mods... but the DMax is only a nanosecond behind. GM puts the best auto trans behind their diesels, hands down, and Dodge/Ram has historically been the worst. Ford's been up and down. Axle are pretty much the same across he board and where there are differences (Dana vs AAM vs Sterling, they are not huge. I'd put Sterling and AAM about even, with Dana ( the Dana 80) a tick behind.
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#2539906 - 02/17/12 03:45 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Jim, I would agree on the older Ford diesel automatics (such as the E4OD, etc.), but the TorqShift automatic in the 6.0 PSD van has been INDESTRUCTIBLE-far and away the best part on that truck-and I am hard on work truck trannys (never had one make it to 150K before & approaching 260K on this one! If only the rest of it was that good...
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#2541455 - 02/19/12 08:06 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6899
Loc: Florida
What 2008 and newer diesel is great while still being street legal, no emission control modifications?
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#2541741 - 02/19/12 12:36 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: DrDusty86]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Turn off the EGR. It's a simple fix. For the record: I don't like dodges either. My 24V CTD was a complete JUNK PILE, motor/body/drivetrain. never again will I waste my money on a Dodge.


Hook me up with a 6-Horse GN and I will outpull AND outlast the Ford/DMax any and every day. Ask me how I know grin

Having one lemon is no reflection on the truck itself. When ranchers are gathered together, there are more Dodges, old and new, parked in the field with livestock trailers hooked to them than any other truck. Does Ford or GM have the "1 million mile club" and hand out badges? I haven't seen one yet. Yeah, I like my Dodge just a little bit. smile
_________________________
Byron
1997 F-350, 7.3 Diesel, E4OD, Rotella Dino 15w-40, Donaldson ELF7405
1989 Volvo 740 Turbo Wagon
2011 34' Sundance TT



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#2541743 - 02/19/12 12:37 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: subiedriver]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
I'll take a Cummins over a 6.0 powerjoke anyday of the week, that motor was certified junk.


Uh, yep!!
_________________________
Byron
1997 F-350, 7.3 Diesel, E4OD, Rotella Dino 15w-40, Donaldson ELF7405
1989 Volvo 740 Turbo Wagon
2011 34' Sundance TT



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#2541750 - 02/19/12 12:42 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: subiedriver]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
Cummins owns the commercial diesel truck market. Nothing is more bulletproof than the 5.9 CTD. Its too bad they had to put it in a lousy truck, lol.

The vast majority of military heavy vehicles run Cummins diesels. The reason.....reliability.

Ford = great overall truck, [censored] diesel.

Dodge = lousy truck, bulletproof diesel.


This age old wives tale of Dodges being "great engines/lousy trucks" is long overdue for a correction. That is a thing of yesteryear. Even leading diesel publications are touting the truck itself as good no matter what the engine. Sure the 89-93s had there issues, but Dodge has long since been making a truck that is solid and a good buy. Again, ask me how I know. Sit in and drive a new Dodge and then a new Ford or GMC. It comes down to personal preference. They all have their problems and issues as well as positive points.
_________________________
Byron
1997 F-350, 7.3 Diesel, E4OD, Rotella Dino 15w-40, Donaldson ELF7405
1989 Volvo 740 Turbo Wagon
2011 34' Sundance TT



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#2541945 - 02/19/12 04:23 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: cowhorse01]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11625
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Again, ask me how I know. Sit in and drive a new Dodge and then a new Ford or GMC. It comes down to personal preference.


For sure. Dodge has definitely seen improvements since the 1989-93 series (and earlier), as have all makers versus older trucks. A buddy has a 1993 one ton Dodge with the Cummins. It brings back memories of ALL the old trucks. There's no leg room, and I'm far from a tall guy. In every "old" regular cab truck, I have to put the seat all the way back and it's cramped - far from a Dodge specific complaint. My F-150 is the same way.

His Cummins runs beautifully. He insists upon using Royal Purple. I have no qualms with this, aside from his short OCI, usually 3,000 miles. He drives only highway miles, and I was lucky to convince him to go to 6,000 miles this time. wink

At least he's not afraid of trying 0w-40 or 5w-40 if he's going to use synthetic, although this time he opted for the 15w-40, which is about $1 per litre cheaper.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2541968 - 02/19/12 04:47 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: 04SE
A friend of mine has a 2009 Dodge 2500 that he bought new. The gentleman is in his sixties and has never used any type of aftermarket tuner or performance accessories. Oil changes have been performed at the dealer since day one. The truck is his grocery getter and toy hauler. The turbo just failed after 27,000 miles. At first Dodge said it was from "lack of maintenance." That lasted about 1 second when he produced all of his maintenance tickets FROM the dealership. Then they said it was from "lack of use." Are you kidding? The turbo failed from "lack of use." HAHAHAHA???? What????

They ended up replacing it under warranty and told him that it had "clogged up" from lack of use. They told him he needs to load the motor up more or buy a gas truck. This truck hauls a skid steer, cattle trailer and camper. He asked the service manager just what exactly he needed to tow/haul that would "clean the turbo." I guess the service manager did not have a good answer.


Lack of use maybe... believe it or not. What exactly failed? Did the actuator fail? Trim ring turn and cause wear on the vanes? Faults related to intermittent low boost? actuator arm binding internally? Plugged catalyst/DPF causing high EGB? Bearing failure? All of these are quite common, I replace a turbo at least once a week. Keep in mind I work for a large company that services quite a large area.

My question to you, is what was the complaint for him to have it looked at?

Also on a non related topic in this thread, in my opinion in the light duty trucks Ford does make the better drive train and chassis. As for engine, the early 6.0L were absolute junk, 2006 and 2007 we never see. The 6.4 is a whole other story. As far as chassis/drive train repairs, Dodges were always in the shop. No one we serviced really used their GM's for work. I hate Duramax just because in my opinion they are a pain to work on (not because they are garbage). Out in the oil fields it is mostly Dodges and Fords, the census there is that GM's don't hold up to the abuse.
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#2541975 - 02/19/12 04:53 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: subiedriver]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
I'll take a Cummins over a 6.0 powerjoke anyday of the week, that motor was certified junk.


Educate yourself please.
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#2541981 - 02/19/12 04:57 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: rufushusky]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: rufushusky
Originally Posted By: 04SE
A friend of mine has a 2009 Dodge 2500 that he bought new. The gentleman is in his sixties and has never used any type of aftermarket tuner or performance accessories. Oil changes have been performed at the dealer since day one. The truck is his grocery getter and toy hauler. The turbo just failed after 27,000 miles. At first Dodge said it was from "lack of maintenance." That lasted about 1 second when he produced all of his maintenance tickets FROM the dealership. Then they said it was from "lack of use." Are you kidding? The turbo failed from "lack of use." HAHAHAHA???? What????

They ended up replacing it under warranty and told him that it had "clogged up" from lack of use. They told him he needs to load the motor up more or buy a gas truck. This truck hauls a skid steer, cattle trailer and camper. He asked the service manager just what exactly he needed to tow/haul that would "clean the turbo." I guess the service manager did not have a good answer.


Geez...got to love dealerships! I have heard of the 6.7 needing the turbo cleaned cause the 6.7 runs soooo sooty with its heavy EGR.



They all look like that lol They went from 10%egr gas to 30%egr gas. If it is extreme there is a TSI for engine base timing which relates to clogged/melted intake pressure sensor's along with plugged delta P tubes in the mixer pipe.
_________________________
-Red seal licensed
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-05 F250 Super Duty, tuned
-04 VW Jetta TDI with tuner
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#2547008 - 02/24/12 12:28 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
DrDusty86 Offline


Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 1491
Loc: TX
I have had the displeasure of maintaining several Dodge CTDs, they ARE JUNK the 05 is BY FAR the worst.

DUDE, I've out pulled quite a few cumm-a-parts, with a 40' and 24+ round bales behind my PSD. I just wind er' out. The dodge guys have no %#%& and are affraid to rev above 2600rpm, atleast around here, so they slow down to 45mph+-. I set the cruise at 65mph and will run in 5th (direct) with 4.10's it's a pulling monster.

When the junky dodge is on the side of the road with a bad wheel bearing, I feel sorry for the poor SOB and stop and help him.

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#2547303 - 02/24/12 05:10 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: DrDusty86]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I have had the displeasure of maintaining several Dodge CTDs, they ARE JUNK the 05 is BY FAR the worst.

DUDE, I've out pulled quite a few cumm-a-parts, with a 40' and 24+ round bales behind my PSD. I just wind er' out. The dodge guys have no %#%& and are affraid to rev above 2600rpm, atleast around here, so they slow down to 45mph+-. I set the cruise at 65mph and will run in 5th (direct) with 4.10's it's a pulling monster.

When the junky dodge is on the side of the road with a bad wheel bearing, I feel sorry for the poor SOB and stop and help him.


Another uneducated statement. I can find just as many Ford POS's driving around and owners who can't even get warranty coverage for bad EGRs and injectors. There is a guy driving a 2006 F-250 with that wonderful POS of a 6.0 around Argyle, Texas. He has a magnetic sign on his door that says "ask me about my warranty" when Ford won't cover his smoking, belching, raggedy truck for a bad EGR and running on 6 cylinders. oh yeah, the 6.0 has 8 cylinders....doh!!!

My point is there as just as many [censored] Ford and Dmaxes out there. Again, each truck has its good and bad points and I have owned 3 Dodges and will not own anything else while having owned a DMax (good truck) and a Ford POS (ok truck). Saying any truck is junk is ignorant at best. They all suck when they die and leave you stranded. Educate yourself please and then your statement may hold some weight. And do it with FACTS and not speculation, hearsay, and "oh Fords are the best cuz they feel good and are cool". Maybe your statement would hold some weight then.
_________________________
Byron
1997 F-350, 7.3 Diesel, E4OD, Rotella Dino 15w-40, Donaldson ELF7405
1989 Volvo 740 Turbo Wagon
2011 34' Sundance TT



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#2547423 - 02/24/12 07:07 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
oliver88 Offline


Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 283
Loc: ohio
Again we fall back to the "Ford guys hate Chevys" and "Dodge guys hate Fords"...please....they are all decent and each has their pro's and con's depending on your needs. Maintenance and driving style will impact them quite a bit. Please stop with the "that truck is junk", "my buddy had a Checy fall apart" conjecture and contribute some real life factual knowledge.

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#2547432 - 02/24/12 07:10 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11625
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Agreed. Last time I checked, there are plenty of boards for Chevy/Ford/Dodge cheerleading.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#2547805 - 02/25/12 07:38 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: oliver88]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
Originally Posted By: oliver88
Again we fall back to the "Ford guys hate Chevys" and "Dodge guys hate Fords"...please....they are all decent and each has their pro's and con's depending on your needs. Maintenance and driving style will impact them quite a bit. Please stop with the "that truck is junk", "my buddy had a Checy fall apart" conjecture and contribute some real life factual knowledge.


Yup. that is my point exactly.
_________________________
Byron
1997 F-350, 7.3 Diesel, E4OD, Rotella Dino 15w-40, Donaldson ELF7405
1989 Volvo 740 Turbo Wagon
2011 34' Sundance TT



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#2547814 - 02/25/12 07:50 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
SteveSRT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15143
Loc: Sunny Florida
All the above poster did with his highly emotional comment was discredit himself.

No harm done, we all are entitled to our opinions.
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J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
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#2547924 - 02/25/12 09:46 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: cowhorse01]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Well said Byron.
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#2548364 - 02/25/12 06:29 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
rslifkin Offline


Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 2218
Loc: Stamford, CT / Rochester, NY
All of the trucks have flaws, they're just different ones on different trucks.
_________________________
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited with Heads/Cam/Headers/Exhaust/Tune/Shift Kit (175k miles, bought with 100k)
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#2548396 - 02/25/12 07:00 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
oliver88 Offline


Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 283
Loc: ohio
Along this line...I have looked into different crankcase vent systems...there is some evidence that routing the crank gases back through the turbo can cause some to oil up the turbo system and lead to early failures in trucks that are not worked hard enough to burn it off...anyone have any experience with this? I like to run mine out to at least 200K miles so any advice would be appreciated.

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#2548578 - 02/25/12 09:29 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: rufushusky]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33783
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: rufushusky


Geez...got to love dealerships! I have heard of the 6.7 needing the turbo cleaned cause the 6.7 runs soooo sooty with its heavy EGR.



What am I missing here? My 82 MB turbodiesel (different beast for sure, but a stout, long lasting engine all the same) has EGR. It comes into the intake manifold, POST turbo.

Highly sooty diesel exhaust has been around for years, and while particle impingment on the blades will wear them eventually, they dont seem to get clogged. With high blowby and oil vapor, EGR soot will clog intakes pretty well, but that is after the turbo.

Interesting stuff. Where is this happening?

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#2548595 - 02/25/12 09:41 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
oliver88 Offline


Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 283
Loc: ohio
All the newer trucks diesel engines have crankcase ventilation systems that are "closed" and recirculate all of the oily crank vapors back into the motor. They burn very clean and the tailpipes are absolutelty spotless...that combined with the EGR and DPF can cause problems if not looked after and the truck is not run hard and at operating temp.

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#2548597 - 02/25/12 09:43 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: oliver88]
rufushusky Offline


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Mass.
Originally Posted By: oliver88
All the newer trucks diesel engines have crankcase ventilation systems that are "closed" and recirculate all of the oily crank vapors back into the motor. They burn very clean and the tailpipes are absolutelty spotless...that combined with the EGR and DPF can cause problems if not looked after and the truck is not run hard and at operating temp.


Even dodge has a procedure for cleaning the turbo and exhaust sensors...

http://www.gcatr.com/images/DODGE_6.7_TURBO_EXHAUST_SYSTEM_CLEANING.pdf
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#2548617 - 02/25/12 09:54 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: oliver88]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33783
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: oliver88
All the newer trucks diesel engines have crankcase ventilation systems that are "closed" and recirculate all of the oily crank vapors back into the motor. They burn very clean and the tailpipes are absolutelty spotless...that combined with the EGR and DPF can cause problems if not looked after and the truck is not run hard and at operating temp.


My 1970's technology MB does that too...

The pipe coming off the valve cover goes to the air filter via cyclonic separator, and those vapors go THROUGH the turbo (EGR is just past the oil cap).



I have no DPF, but Im still failing to see why the turbo would clog, since the EGR soot is put in post-turbo.

I could imagine a lot of sooty, oily mess in the intake though.

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#2548657 - 02/25/12 10:23 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: JHZR2]
rufushusky Offline


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Mass.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: oliver88
All the newer trucks diesel engines have crankcase ventilation systems that are "closed" and recirculate all of the oily crank vapors back into the motor. They burn very clean and the tailpipes are absolutelty spotless...that combined with the EGR and DPF can cause problems if not looked after and the truck is not run hard and at operating temp.


My 1970's technology MB does that too...

The pipe coming off the valve cover goes to the air filter via cyclonic separator, and those vapors go THROUGH the turbo (EGR is just past the oil cap).



I have no DPF, but Im still failing to see why the turbo would clog, since the EGR soot is put in post-turbo.

I could imagine a lot of sooty, oily mess in the intake though.


EGR is nothing new to Cummins either. California 12Vs had EGR back in the 90s.



6.7s soot the tar out of oil and exhaust gases.


Edited by rufushusky (02/25/12 10:26 PM)
_________________________
2002 Ford F-350 ECLB SRW 4R100 4X4
HPX 6637 Stancor 6.0 trans cooler

Sold: 04.5 Dodge CTD

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#2548692 - 02/25/12 11:16 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: rufushusky]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33783
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: rufushusky


EGR is nothing new to Cummins either. California 12Vs had EGR back in the 90s.



6.7s soot the tar out of oil and exhaust gases.


Yeah, question is why? All of the deposits and junk Ive seen in my engines are due to a combination of oil mist that doesnt get separated, and the soot from through the EGR.

But my understanding is that the TURBO is seeing issues due to this, but I do not understand why.

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#2549268 - 02/26/12 02:59 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
The turbo charger's bung up in the vein area, on Cummins engines there is a cone with flutes, these flutes run through a disc. they do not bung up per say, the internal actuator arm binds, the disc comes loose and binds the flutes or the actuator itself fails. Cummins engines all have an open crankcase ventilation system, they posses a crankcase breather filter, it is designed to condense oil vapor and drain it back into the crankcase with a minimal amount of HC's escaping.

International uses a different style of variable vein turbo. In my experience (and feel free to add comments) these turbos simply due to their design clog up. High EGP, low fuel pressure, faulty injectors, extended service intervals, and so on increase the amount of soot created and reduce the exhaust flow. This makes an already known issue more prominent.

Oliver88 raises a good point.

"All the newer trucks diesel engines have crankcase ventilation systems that are "closed" and recirculate all of the oily crank vapors back into the motor. They burn very clean and the tailpipes are absolutelty spotless...that combined with the EGR and DPF can cause problems if not looked after and the truck is not run hard and at operating temp."

A large majority of the trucks that are worked hard have little to no issues regarding soot build up or after treatment issues. All components are up to temp where they are designed to function at their optimum abilities. I see a large amount of issues from trucks that run light or are simply grocery getters.
_________________________
-Red seal licensed
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#2549278 - 02/26/12 03:05 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: DrDusty86]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I have had the displeasure of maintaining several Dodge CTDs, they ARE JUNK the 05 is BY FAR the worst.

DUDE, I've out pulled quite a few cumm-a-parts, with a 40' and 24+ round bales behind my PSD. I just wind er' out. The dodge guys have no %#%& and are affraid to rev above 2600rpm, atleast around here, so they slow down to 45mph+-. I set the cruise at 65mph and will run in 5th (direct) with 4.10's it's a pulling monster.

When the junky dodge is on the side of the road with a bad wheel bearing, I feel sorry for the poor SOB and stop and help him.


LMAO! have you replaced a wheel bearing in your truck yet? I have, at the cost of $700 cnd. I'd rather replace a dodge one every 2 years at $140cnd a piece.
That price is at my cost btw, NAPA retails a bearing for an '05 F250 4x4 at $1100cnd. pro's and cons lol
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#2549495 - 02/26/12 06:44 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: slammds15]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26433
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
I have had the displeasure of maintaining several Dodge CTDs, they ARE JUNK the 05 is BY FAR the worst.

DUDE, I've out pulled quite a few cumm-a-parts, with a 40' and 24+ round bales behind my PSD. I just wind er' out. The dodge guys have no %#%& and are affraid to rev above 2600rpm, atleast around here, so they slow down to 45mph+-. I set the cruise at 65mph and will run in 5th (direct) with 4.10's it's a pulling monster.

When the junky dodge is on the side of the road with a bad wheel bearing, I feel sorry for the poor SOB and stop and help him.


LMAO! have you replaced a wheel bearing in your truck yet? I have, at the cost of $700 cnd. I'd rather replace a dodge one every 2 years at $140cnd a piece.
That price is at my cost btw, NAPA retails a bearing for an '05 F250 4x4 at $1100cnd. pro's and cons lol


Luckily you are made of money and recently had your truck gold plated grin
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#2549539 - 02/26/12 07:23 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
I got the loan from you that's how wink
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#2549556 - 02/26/12 07:46 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: slammds15]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26433
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: slammds15
I got the loan from you that's how wink


LOL!! Payment via off-shore Swiss "investment" account smile
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#2549738 - 02/26/12 10:40 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: JHZR2]
Sunnyinhollister Offline


Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 439
Loc: Hollister, CA
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: rufushusky


EGR is nothing new to Cummins either. California 12Vs had EGR back in the 90s.



6.7s soot the tar out of oil and exhaust gases.


Yeah, question is why? All of the deposits and junk Ive seen in my engines are due to a combination of oil mist that doesnt get separated, and the soot from through the EGR.

But my understanding is that the TURBO is seeing issues due to this, but I do not understand why.


The older diesels used a turbo with a wastegate - the newer turbos are s vaiable geometery turbo with no wastegate and it is the mechanism that changes the angle of the vanes that binds when there is a lot of soot present. Higher EGR flow rates + CCV = more soot. The performance of the VGT is nice, but I prefer the simplicity of the wastegate, no egr, and no CCV. I should have kept my 2004.5 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 quad cab with the manual tranny.
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#2549868 - 02/27/12 06:25 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
SteveSRT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15143
Loc: Sunny Florida
As usual more tech is not always better.

That's why I am seldom an 'early adopter'.
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#2549944 - 02/27/12 08:23 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4284
Loc: Michigan
It's not a case of Cummins adding complication of the cooled EGR, DPF's, and SCR just for the sake of complication. It's the price that they have to pay to be permitted by the EPA to sell engines.
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#2551460 - 02/28/12 03:19 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
I'm still trying to figure out why the 6.7 Dodge C&Cs and bigger Cummins powered trucks have the urea system, and the Dodge pickup uses the fuel-wasting DPF WITHOUT the urea. If I had a 6.7, that DPF would be the FIRST thing to go, warranty be[CENSORED]-ed!!
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#2551838 - 02/28/12 09:47 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: bullwinkle]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1027
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'm still trying to figure out why the 6.7 Dodge C&Cs and bigger Cummins powered trucks have the urea system, and the Dodge pickup uses the fuel-wasting DPF WITHOUT the urea. If I had a 6.7, that DPF would be the FIRST thing to go, warranty be[CENSORED]-ed!!
Longer Service life out of the Urea system?
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#2551872 - 02/28/12 10:14 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
rslifkin Offline


Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 2218
Loc: Stamford, CT / Rochester, NY
It could also be a cost to build vs passing emissions standards thing.
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#2551883 - 02/28/12 10:27 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: rslifkin]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1027
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
It could also be a cost to build vs passing emissions standards thing.
Who knows? Maybe they figure by the time the DPF is toast the rest of the truck and motor aren't far behind. Aren't these(light duty diesels) something like b10-225k mile and b50 300k mile engines?
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#2552006 - 02/29/12 04:23 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5627
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Don't get topics confused ...

As I understand it, the DPF is required because it treats the exhaust particulate (hence the name of the equipment). This is specific to the regeneration cycles needed at times, to heat the PDF unit so it will burn off the soot. The raw fuel is injected in one of two ways. Most common is the "in cylinder" approach where the fuel is shot into the exhaust cycle, and pushed down to the DPF unit to be burned. This is the more common approach. However, GM (Dmax LML) just introduced a 9th injector in the exhaust piping downstream of the engine; hence no fuel/oil dilution. Costs more to have a 9th injector, but it certainly solves oil contamination issues.


The use of urea (SCR - selective catalyst reduction) is used to threat the exhaust gaseous emmisions, specifically nitrogen oxides IIRC. EGR can also be used to treat nitrogen oxides. The Ram truck uses EGR rather than SCR as a matter of chosen bias against less regular maintenance costs, etc. Urea costs money, and it's perceived by some to be an inconvenience in regard to maintenance fill ups, etc. OTOH, the heavy use of EGR has other undesirable effects such as heavy soot loading of the oil and EGR system components. In short, it's a "choice" that the Ram truck folks made; they prefer the EGR over the SCR.

It's important to note that, in regard to DPF and regens, the more you work your truck hard, the less regen events take place. Guys that tow hard/heavy all the time actually have less regens and less EGR/DPF soot contamination because the system gets really hot (desirable) from normal use. OTOH, guys that use their trucks to make a run to Home Depot for wood for the back porch deck, and drive the other 99% of the time to work and back while communting, see a lot of DPF loading and therefore a lot of regen events. These guys often complain about the costs of operating a HD truck; the regens, the EGR cleanings, the cost of urea, and it's their driving cycle that is the root cause. They don't "need" a diesel truck; they "want" one. And they pay a heavy price for that in higher maintenance costs and equipment issues. They can "delete" exhaust equipment and "alter" engine programming, but eventually it will catch up to them with exhaust laws. More and more states are now testing diesel trucks along with cars for exhaust emmisions. "Lost kitty" and "DPF fell off" approaches are short term fixes for long term issues. I fully understand that those fixes work; but they will eventually be made unavailable as the "tree police" get ever more vigilent.



I'm not saying I have a preference; I see the benefits and limitations to each approach. I'm just trying to clear up the concept of DPF, SCR and EGR use.

If I got the terminology wrong, feel free to correct me. Just going by memory here.


Edited by dnewton3 (03/01/12 03:57 AM)
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#2552076 - 02/29/12 07:51 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4284
Loc: Michigan
EGR and SCR are both NOx control systems, but SCR allows the engines to be tuned for more engine-out NOx, which is then cleaned up in the aftertreatment. When diesels went to high amounts of cooled EGR, they suffered a 10% increase in fuel consumption. SCR engines give better fuel efficiency, and even adding the cost of the urea solution, are cheaper to operate.
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#2552103 - 02/29/12 08:29 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: A_Harman]
rufushusky Offline


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Mass.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
EGR and SCR are both NOx control systems, but SCR allows the engines to be tuned for more engine-out NOx, which is then cleaned up in the aftertreatment. When diesels went to high amounts of cooled EGR, they suffered a 10% increase in fuel consumption. SCR engines give better fuel efficiency, and even adding the cost of the urea solution, are cheaper to operate.


Yes sir, SCR basically allows the engine to run "dirtier" with the after treatment catching the NOx and rely less on EGR for the NOx reduction.

IMHO the Dmax with the 9th injector is the way to go...very similar to what Detroit did on the DD-13 and DD-15. IIRC Mack does something similar too. The downside is the increase upfront cost due to the SCR system and the slightly higher operating costs associated with Urea.

IMHO due to their complexity, the more and more specialized operating requirements and the cost of the fuel light duty diesels are moving away from the consumer level user and back to vocational uses. Which isn't the end of the world cause we have half tons trucks now that can do the job 3/4 and 1 tons did 5-10 years ago and still get high teens mpg burning a cheaper fuel.

If I had to purchase a new truck for my use there would be no way I would buy a new diesel sure they are powerful and very capable but I can get a 1/2 ton that can tow my fifth wheel (only about 9k pounds) no problem and cost less to maintain and drive. The only issue I would possibly run into would be with my plow but that would be a nice excuse to get rid of it and rehab an old ariens!

Sorry to the OP, I ventured a little OT!
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#2552123 - 02/29/12 08:49 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
oliver88 Offline


Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 283
Loc: ohio
Again, if you NEED a diesel engine in a light duty truck by all means buy it and use it as intended. They (all the Big Three) make great tow vehicles and heavy haulers. The guys who buy them,do lots of mods and just want the "cool" factor from owning a diesel are usually the most frustrated. They will complain all the way back to the dealer.

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#2552243 - 02/29/12 10:48 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
The funny thing is, my Cummins powered Ram is usually the truck I drive the LEAST-the older IDI trucks, mainly the F-450 7.3 non-turbo with it's big Reading body, usually get used a lot more, along with the company 6.0 PSD van (when it's out of the shop!). The big D usually only tows the boat or hauls 6 people around, I'm usually too busy for play time. I agree if you have a diesel you NEED to work it, they're just too expensive to be a DD, even without the fuel $$$.
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#2552245 - 02/29/12 10:52 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4092
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Also slightly OT-Dave, does Indy (and the state of IN) emission test diesels? Here in OH, when we had E-check, they stuck a probe in the exhaust to measure opacity on a treadmill, my son's old 300D would blow visible smoke and still register 0.0%!! oilburner
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#2552268 - 02/29/12 11:30 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1134
Loc: Alaska
An alternative (my alternative) is to order a vehicle from Proffitt's Cruisers in Colorado:
new 2010 HZJ79 Landcruiser pickup body, built on rust free 8.5" lengthened galvanized FJ60 frame with rebuilt turboed 1HZ 6 cyl diesel with 5spd trans, lockers, 33-34" tires, etc etc.
Hopefully it will look and smell "new" and the cost is about the same as a new diesel pickup, without EGR/SCR/DPF, with a reasonable 4.2L and 200hp/~300 ft-lb and 2500 lb load capacity.
It does take about a year from down payment to delivery....
Will be registered according to VIN on frame as mid 80s LC.

Charlie
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#2552414 - 02/29/12 01:28 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
SteveSRT8 Online   content


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15143
Loc: Sunny Florida
And urea based systems are easy to refill!!! Just park behind the bar.
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#2552481 - 02/29/12 02:43 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: bullwinkle]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5627
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Also slightly OT-Dave, does Indy (and the state of IN) emission test diesels? Here in OH, when we had E-check, they stuck a probe in the exhaust to measure opacity on a treadmill, my son's old 300D would blow visible smoke and still register 0.0%!! oilburner


Not yet, but it has been in the legislative sub-committies in the past, but didn't get much traction. However, as we all know, times change ...
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2552670 - 02/29/12 05:50 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
thumbsup dnewton3, well written in your previous post.
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#2552691 - 02/29/12 06:14 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: SteveSRT8]
cowhorse01 Offline


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Oceanside, CA
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
All the above poster did with his highly emotional comment was discredit himself.

No harm done, we all are entitled to our opinions.


Huh? Highly emotional? I only see truth and facts.
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#2552701 - 02/29/12 06:21 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: 04SE]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1027
Loc: Fl
Lots of good info guys.
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#2553104 - 03/01/12 05:29 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: bullwinkle]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Also slightly OT-Dave, does Indy (and the state of IN) emission test diesels? Here in OH, when we had E-check, they stuck a probe in the exhaust to measure opacity on a treadmill, my son's old 300D would blow visible smoke and still register 0.0%!! oilburner


We check Emissions here in CT and I passed with a blocked EGR and the PCV by-passed, clean as a whistle I am . grin
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#2560930 - 03/08/12 09:05 AM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: Bambam]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 6899
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Also slightly OT-Dave, does Indy (and the state of IN) emission test diesels? Here in OH, when we had E-check, they stuck a probe in the exhaust to measure opacity on a treadmill, my son's old 300D would blow visible smoke and still register 0.0%!! oilburner


We check Emissions here in CT and I passed with a blocked EGR and the PCV by-passed, clean as a whistle I am . grin


My dad once encountered a similar situation. Many years ago, Florida had smog tests every year. One year my father was the first to arrive, and the man who tested his car forgot something, and as a result, his car had all zeros on the smog test. The man there said "You have one amazing car!" Dad had a 1992 Nissan Sentra.
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#2561151 - 03/08/12 12:23 PM Re: 2009 6.7 Cummins turbo failure [Re: artificialist]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26433
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: Bambam
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Also slightly OT-Dave, does Indy (and the state of IN) emission test diesels? Here in OH, when we had E-check, they stuck a probe in the exhaust to measure opacity on a treadmill, my son's old 300D would blow visible smoke and still register 0.0%!! oilburner


We check Emissions here in CT and I passed with a blocked EGR and the PCV by-passed, clean as a whistle I am . grin


My dad once encountered a similar situation. Many years ago, Florida had smog tests every year. One year my father was the first to arrive, and the man who tested his car forgot something, and as a result, his car had all zeros on the smog test. The man there said "You have one amazing car!" Dad had a 1992 Nissan Sentra.


My Mustang passed with a pollution pump delete and no cats. The only functional emissions component it had was EGR.

It was ON THE LINE, but it passed.
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