!echo! RL 5W-20x3 RL 10W-30x1 84K on motor 9.3K on oil

[simple_gifts]

Fourth RL run, FP and LC at least 3oz/1000miles
Oilguard EPS-10/No makeup oil/Lab is Blackstone
Oil in from August

Al 3
Cr 0
Fe 5
Cu 5
Pb 0
Sn 1
Moly 376
Ni 0
Mn 4
Ag 0
Ti 0
K 24
B 7
Si 11
Na 5
Ca 2053
Mg 9
P 927
Zn 988
Barium 1

Sus @ 210 56.7
Flash 370
Fuel Gly/H20 0
Insol .3

TBN 1.1

 

[Al]

Nice. Moly numbers seem low for RedLine. You want to keep an eye on the potassium as it could be coolant leakage.

 

[SSDude]

Wow. Outstanding.

 

[glennc]

Outstanding numbers! I don't recall seeing a lot of Echo UOAs, but these numbers with that kind of mileage on the oil would be stellar for any vehicle. My faith in RL is bumped a notch here.

I'd have a look at the K and Na if you can find a VOA for this oil. If that doesn't explain their presence then I'd agree, you might be seeing the beginnings of a coolant issue.

- Glenn

 

[buster]

Great report, but it's a Toyota. Any oil will show well in a Toyo.

 

[glennc]

True, Buster, though 9k miles and these metals numbers I don't think you'll find very often.

- Glenn

 

[bulwnkl]

In contrast to others, to me something seems amiss. The Mo level seems nearly 200ppm too low, the flash point looks too low, and the TBN seems low given the huge amount of LC you're using.

Have you thought of hiring Dyson Analysis?

 

[bulwnkl]

I forgot to add that the Ca is ~1000ppm too low, and Zn and P are both ~500ppm too low. This is in comparison to the VOA from AEHaas from November on the 5W20 and the UOA from my similar-mileage 10W30 from the summer.

When did you buy this Redline? Did they reformulate and drop Ca and ZDDP by 1/3 and Mo by almost 40%? Or is something rubbing in there that shouldn't be?

 

[simple_gifts]

3oz LC / 1000 miles = 1 qt of Lube Control. Sump is 4 qts, so 1 qt RL was removed, 6-9 oz at a time to prevent overfilling

Mix has 1 qt of 10W-30 mixed in.

I was somewhat disappointed in the LC. Previous UOA had a TBN of 1.5 @ 10,000 miles with only 1oz/1000 miles. Driving habits similar. Perhaps the cold start/warm up cycle in fall/winter depleted the TBN?

Oil came from AA, out of the same case as previous UOA's. I'm not anal enough to track lot #'s as users of "another oil" are.

I deferred on Terry's interpretation this time. But have consulted him in the past. Car is due for a tuneup, I'm bumping up against the car's pathetic 30K tuneup interval.

All 4, P, Zn, Mo, Ca show 2/3 what they should be. Coincidence?

 

[bulwnkl]

You drained oil off to add the LC (as opposed to it being consumed or the LC itself volatilizing off)?

Even if you drained out a full quart, the values should only be down 1/4, not 1/3. This is very interesting...

 

[TallPaul]

TBN of only 1.1? It's obvious that LC does not do anyting to boost TBN. Would be better off putting in a shot of SLOB every 1000 miles, I would think.

 

[goodvibes]

Draining oil will also lower TBN.

 

[buster]

Removing 25% of the RL and adding the low viscosity LC would naturally lower the viscosity or offset oxidative thickening. For this vehicle, don't waste your money on RL or LC. Use Amsoil/Mobil 1/Castrol/PP and go 10k miles without LC and a stronger TBN.

 

[goodvibes]

I actually like the mix but I would start with 1/2 oz per quart since it's the second time and add less than 2oz per 1k. You can easily use that much without worrying about an overfill and dilution. I'd modify a good combo that worked for me instead of taking a flying leap. I'd ask Terry too. He can probably balance the LC benefit/overfill thing for you. You probably don'T need anything but the anti oxident aspect of the LC for the Redline. Without LC it would probably have gone up a weight.

 

[TallPaul]

For $9 a quart one should not have to add anything to it.

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

---

For this vehicle, don't waste your money on RL or LC

---

Sorry, picked up 4 cases of RL @ 5.95/qt.

Right now I am using TSO; looking for a 13K-15K OCI. I don't think average oils do well with extended OCI's in this car. My original M1 5W-30 SL fill thickened to a 40 weight in < 5.5K miles. I'm staying away from LC with the TSO; so far so good, engine "feels good" @ 3500RPM with 8K on the oil.

 

[buster]

Good deal. Does the engine feel any different with the Amsoil? I would think the Amsoil should outlast the RL. When do you plan on taking a sample?

 

[simple_gifts]

Yes, I like the feel of Amsoil better; giant psychological hurdle to overcome just to buy it, pour it in and push it, but I'm pretty much an Amsoil convert. Two years ago, I never would have said that.

Doing more trips to my parents in western VA (1000mi/trip) It might be only mid Feb before I get to my 13K drain and sample goal.

 

[simple_gifts]

Buster, I see your signature says you are running ASL; I ordered 4 gals of that recently shipped out of PA (hopefully SM rated, label says SL) I have 1 more TSO change after this one, then giving ASL a try....

-Thomas.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I would run the Redline with no LC next time. I know that some of us think that LC causes additive fallout. I say this because this idea was but before me and it seemed reasonable at the time. My M1R UOA had realy strange additive levels that were way too low. The results in terms of wear were ok but the additive levels were low. I also have seen a lot of LC20 reports that have had rather low TBN.