Amsoil base stocks not what they used to be?

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Originally Posted By: jaj
Hold the phone! Am I remembering this wrong? I recall that a few years ago, Amsoil's XL series was heart of their "extended drain" "real" Grp 4/5 synthetic oil product line.

Then they introduced OE and were quite candid about making it with downgraded base oils so they could aim it at the API licensed market segment and still be competitive.




Your memory is a bit off for sure.
 
I started off with XL 7500 in '04.

At that time they had 25k, 35k, and this "one."

The latter was upped to 10k and OE was added in a later date.

The XL was relatively new, and one of the marketing strategies was developed to hit the quick lube places.

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Originally Posted By: Pablo
Your memory is a bit off for sure.


Whew! That's a relief! If it wasn't XL, then which oil was the "premium" true synthetic with Grp 4/5 before Signature Series came along?
 
Originally Posted By: buster
It's a shame Royal Sulfur has to resort to one arm bandit testing. It's probably a decent product.


Friend with a Titan switched from Royal Purple (API-SL) to Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL SSO flavor)...to see if wear trends down. Will get a UOA in about 3-4 months.

The 1st two analysis have been higher than average for 'wear metals'. This while silicon isn't bad, no signs of coolant entry, viscosity stays within grade, fuel dilution isn't bad & insols are relatively low...but wearing faster than samples from other vehicles with the same engine(armada/titan).

The only other thing I can think of is that with his mods(all bolt on mind you), perhaps the need for a thicker oil in his Nissan???
 
Originally Posted By: buster
You have no idea what Amsoil diluted their oils with.


+1 Unless someone reverse engineers the product all we have is what we've been told or read. For all we know the product could have changed a dozen times in the last 5 years.

That can be said for other oil compaines as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Pablo
I use amsoil because I think it is as good a product as any out there and I like cheering for the little guy. And I think it's an honest company. Big business tends to try to keep consumers in the dark whereas smaller companies seem to care about us,the little people.

Is this Occupy Amsoil.??
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Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: buster
It's a shame Royal Sulfur has to resort to one arm bandit testing. It's probably a decent product.


Friend with a Titan switched from Royal Purple (API-SL) to Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL SSO flavor)...to see if wear trends down. Will get a UOA in about 3-4 months.

The 1st two analysis have been higher than average for 'wear metals'. This while silicon isn't bad, no signs of coolant entry, viscosity stays within grade, fuel dilution isn't bad & insols are relatively low...but wearing faster than samples from other vehicles with the same engine(armada/titan).

The only other thing I can think of is that with his mods(all bolt on mind you), perhaps the need for a thicker oil in his Nissan???


Have him test after the 2nd or 3rd drain. Ester oils show higher wear after the 1st UOA. I'm a Redline guy
 
Quote:
AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters.


While I do agree with TomNJ that when using a high quality base stock it would be an excellent way differentiate oneself from the competition; I read the AMSOIL statement provided by the original poster slightly different.

It seems to me that this general statement is talking about their entire line of products - which naturally will use different combinations of synthetic base stocks that suit the performance characteristics that AMSOIL customers have come to expect from their products. This allows them the flexibility to adjust their performance as new technology is developed or to suit specific market needs without limiting themselves to only using a specific formula or source of base stocks. As has been demonstrated by Pablo the specific statements regarding specific products they have been happy to share with us. Although why they don't use it more in their marketing is beyond me.

It most definitely a blanket statement that is designed as marketing/legal mumbo-jumbo which you will find on the website of ANY oil company and I would be interested to hear what response Pablo is able to get for us.
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: buster
It's a shame Royal Sulfur has to resort to one arm bandit testing. It's probably a decent product.


Friend with a Titan switched from Royal Purple (API-SL) to Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL SSO flavor)...to see if wear trends down. Will get a UOA in about 3-4 months.

The 1st two analysis have been higher than average for 'wear metals'. This while silicon isn't bad, no signs of coolant entry, viscosity stays within grade, fuel dilution isn't bad & insols are relatively low...but wearing faster than samples from other vehicles with the same engine(armada/titan).

The only other thing I can think of is that with his mods(all bolt on mind you), perhaps the need for a thicker oil in his Nissan???


Unless he's now running the truck HARD as a result of the added mods/power, i see no reason to up the viscosity.

Besides, you just said that from previous UOAs, the viscosity stayed in grade.
 
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: buster
It's a shame Royal Sulfur has to resort to one arm bandit testing. It's probably a decent product.


Friend with a Titan switched from Royal Purple (API-SL) to Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL SSO flavor)...to see if wear trends down. Will get a UOA in about 3-4 months.

The 1st two analysis have been higher than average for 'wear metals'. This while silicon isn't bad, no signs of coolant entry, viscosity stays within grade, fuel dilution isn't bad & insols are relatively low...but wearing faster than samples from other vehicles with the same engine(armada/titan).

The only other thing I can think of is that with his mods(all bolt on mind you), perhaps the need for a thicker oil in his Nissan???


Have him test after the 2nd or 3rd drain. Ester oils show higher wear after the 1st UOA. I'm a Redline guy


I never understood why it works that way with Ester oil.

I tried Redline for a 2 OCIs and both showed higher wear in my UOA so i stopped using it.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: buster
It's a shame Royal Sulfur has to resort to one arm bandit testing. It's probably a decent product.


Friend with a Titan switched from Royal Purple (API-SL) to Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL SSO flavor)...to see if wear trends down. Will get a UOA in about 3-4 months.

The 1st two analysis have been higher than average for 'wear metals'. This while silicon isn't bad, no signs of coolant entry, viscosity stays within grade, fuel dilution isn't bad & insols are relatively low...but wearing faster than samples from other vehicles with the same engine(armada/titan).

The only other thing I can think of is that with his mods(all bolt on mind you), perhaps the need for a thicker oil in his Nissan???


Have him test after the 2nd or 3rd drain. Ester oils show higher wear after the 1st UOA. I'm a Redline guy


I never understood why it works that way with Ester oil.

I tried Redline for a 2 OCIs and both showed higher wear in my UOA so i stopped using it.


^I think the idea is that ester-formulated oils do some 'clean up' of metal particles that were already ready to be suspended, the whole 'chelate' theory. It's plausible, at the same time with continued use it's supposed to tail off. So it may 'show' a blip in 'wear' metals but it's really just 'metals', not necessarily from lack of lubrication/protection.
 
Originally Posted By: Solarent
Quote:
AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters.


While I do agree with TomNJ that when using a high quality base stock it would be an excellent way differentiate oneself from the competition; I read the AMSOIL statement provided by the original poster slightly different.

It seems to me that this general statement is talking about their entire line of products - which naturally will use different combinations of synthetic base stocks that suit the performance characteristics that AMSOIL customers have come to expect from their products. This allows them the flexibility to adjust their performance as new technology is developed or to suit specific market needs without limiting themselves to only using a specific formula or source of base stocks. As has been demonstrated by Pablo the specific statements regarding specific products they have been happy to share with us. Although why they don't use it more in their marketing is beyond me.

It most definitely a blanket statement that is designed as marketing/legal mumbo-jumbo which you will find on the website of ANY oil company and I would be interested to hear what response Pablo is able to get for us.


That's a very good perspective. I hadn't thought of it that way.
Hope Pablo can get them to respond too.....
 
I dont see any way to give you anything but an elusive answer. Oil blending is an art, not a science. It's always a performance based blend to meet a spec. It's not always 50%X, 40%Y and 10%Z.

When they have some garbage to get rid of or too much of something, in it goes, add other components to get to spec.

As far as the base, not answering that question is not a good sign.
 
This is a fascinating thread!

Basically, Amsoil is not revealing anything about their oil blending solutions (just like every other oil company) and Amsoil is free to change blends without notice to their customers (just like every other oil company). But, regardless of behaving like every other oil company, Amsoil's different from every other oil company. Luckily, I put on my explosion-proof head when I got up this morning.
 
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
0W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (AFF) is a PAO/Ester based oil. If your car is good with API SL/CF, SJ, SH, SG then it works great. It's JASO MA/MA2.


Yes, thank you Pablo.

I wonder why they did not just create/market/promote and label this as an automotive oil (with full automotive, wet clutch incompatable, add packs in it), to compete with M1's (and even Red Line's) 0W-40s?
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Originally Posted By: buster
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html

Basically Amsoil is not paying to officially approve their top of the line oils, therefore you don't really know what you're getting. How would you really know if they were using multiple base oils to cut costs? You don't. You have to trust the company. Amsoil has been around a long time, like Redline. Both are two reputable boutique brands.


Yep it boils down to trust. I'll pass.
 
Originally Posted By: jaj
This is a fascinating thread!

Basically, Amsoil is not revealing anything about their oil blending solutions (just like every other oil company) and Amsoil is free to change blends without notice to their customers (just like every other oil company). But, regardless of behaving like every other oil company, Amsoil's different from every other oil company. Luckily, I put on my explosion-proof head when I got up this morning.

My thoughts exactly!
 
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