Striking out here: API SM + 5w30 + group V

[dparm]

Trying to help my Dad find a good group V-heavy oil (he firmly believes in it after reading Nissan's TSB) that's API SM certified and 5w30.

So far I am striking out. Plenty of 5w30s with group V that are API SL. The others only claim to "meet or exceed" SM but don't carry the starburst. Said vehicle this is going into has a warranty so we don't want to jeopardize that.

If you don't care about the API starburst, there's stuff like RLI and Redline. Waiting to hear back from Blu Synthetics on whether or not it's API-cert or not.

 

[Tom NJ]

If you Dad is referring to the Nissan "Ester Oil", it is not heavy in esters. It only has about 1% of an ester friction modifier additive (glyceryl monooleate). Many oils have ester type FMs and GMO was popular, but has gone out of favor because it loses its FM properties over time due to oxidation.

Mobil 1 oils use about 10% of a Group V (alkylated naphthalene) and some have a dash of polyol ester. You will be hard pressed to find an oil that contains lots of Group V and is API certified.

Tom NJ

 

[dparm]

Exactly. We ran the Nissan Ester Oil and it was quite disappointing, especially for $11.70/qt.

Which of the M1 oils have the group V?

The Motul X-Lite 0w30 is one of the most appealing (lots of group V and VI of 177, HTHS 3.5) but sadly it is API SL.

 

[Tom NJ]

To my knowledge, all M1s contain about 10% of AN, a non-ester Group V. Last time I checked for POE content was over five years ago in a 5W-30 and there was very little.

Tom NJ

 

[addyguy]

I don't think you will find what you are looking for.

Closest I can think of Castrol Elixion 5W-30, a PAO-based 3.5 HT/HS diesel oil that meets API SM limits, and is also CJ-4.

 

[CATERHAM]

Yeah there aren't any.

BTW, why do you want an heavy than spec' HTHS 3.5cP oil?

I'd go with an OTC 5W-30 syn' and add a pint or more of RL 0W-20 or 0W-30. Keep the receipts on the 5W-30 spec' oil and you'll be fine for warranty purposes. That will give you 5% or more of POE.

 

[shpankey]

You could also just buy a heavy in group v oil and use it and if you have an out of warranty vehicle or know a friend or family member who does that uses a 5w30 oil just save & use those receipts. I don't myself have a big issue with it simply b/c you are trying to protect your car even more, not abuse it.

I like CATERHAM's idea too, I've had excellent results adding in 1 quart of Red Line with the rest M1 or Pennzoil Platinum, SynPower, etc. I loved that mix in mine, a lot! You can kind of think of it as adding an additive boost, as it will add in a spot of moly & up the zink/phos a bit.

Cool thread, the replies above are from some of the best posters here. I'd do what they recommend.

 

[dailydriver]

I thought that M1's 0W-20/30/40 actually had measurable amounts of POE in the basestock?

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
I like CATERHAM's idea too, I've had excellent results adding in 1 quart of Red Line with the rest M1 or Pennzoil Platinum, SynPower, etc. I loved that mix in mine, a lot! You can kind of think of it as adding an additive boost, as it will add in a spot of moly & up the zink/phos a bit.

Cool thread, the replies above are from some of the best posters here. I'd do what they recommend.

Tom NJ, Addyguy and Caterham and some others are well regarded here.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
If you Dad is referring to the Nissan "Ester Oil", it is not heavy in esters. It only has about 1% of an ester friction modifier additive (glyceryl monooleate). Many oils have ester type FMs and GMO was popular, but has gone out of favor because it loses its FM properties over time due to oxidation.

Mobil 1 oils use about 10% of a Group V (alkylated naphthalene) and some have a dash of polyol ester. You will be hard pressed to find an oil that contains lots of Group V and is API certified.

Tom NJ


Is this why Redline Oils that are poly ol (and fit the bill as described by Tom NJ) are not API certified due to the high ester / Group V content ?

If this is so and API requirements cannot be satisfied why the rave about high content ester/ Group oils such as Redline ?

If my interpretation is not correct please advise

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: dparm

The Motul X-Lite 0w30 is one of the most appealing (lots of group V and VI of 177, HTHS 3.5) but sadly it is API SL.

What is the language like in the owner's manual? Does it say that SM is "required" or is it "recommended"?

-Dennis

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: virginoil

Is this why Redline Oils that are poly ol (and fit the bill as described by Tom NJ) are not API certified due to the high ester / Group V content ?

If this is so and API requirements cannot be satisfied why the rave about high content ester/ Group oils such as Redline ?


One can easily pass all requirements and obtain API certification with high ester content oils. Some companies like Red Line may not want to lower their ZDDP content to do so, not to mention the quarter million dollars in testing costs.

Tom NJ

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Exactly. We ran the Nissan Ester Oil and it was quite disappointing, especially for $11.70/qt.

Which of the M1 oils have the group V?


I don't know about the States, but up here, the Infiniti dealers use Mobil conventional or Mobil 1, unless the customers want the Nissan Ester. They even have Infiniti/Mobil posters on the walls.

Aside from that, I don't know what to suggest. Check here for Mobil's answers to various ester questions, including those relating to Infinitis and Nissans.

I took the easy way out and use PYB 5w-30 SN/GF-5 on the severe service schedule.

 

[The_Eric]

I may be laughed out of here, but I saw no mention of G-Oil? It's a (Bio) ester and I believe it has the certs you require... Or did I miss something?

 

[dparm]

G-Oil had occurred to me, yes.

All I know is that the manual says it needs to be API SM 5w30. Don't know the exact verbage but will find out.

The only reason I'm leaning towards a higher HTHS is because the motor is a VQ35HR, a motor that's historically been hard on oil and is very performance-oriented (G35, 350Z, etc).

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: virginoil

Is this why Redline Oils that are poly ol (and fit the bill as described by Tom NJ) are not API certified due to the high ester / Group V content ?

If this is so and API requirements cannot be satisfied why the rave about high content ester/ Group oils such as Redline ?


One can easily pass all requirements and obtain API certification with high ester content oils. Some companies like Red Line may not want to lower their ZDDP content to do so, not to mention the quarter million dollars in testing costs.

Tom NJ


Thanks for clearing up the ester and API approvals.

No sympathy towards Redline at $36 / L AUD they must be able afford at least 1 approval somewhere.

Not to divert this thread to Redline + or - reasons its just my gripe with that company.

 

[dparm]

Redline can be had for < $11 USD per liter. I can even get it locally and avoid shipping costs.

API approvals probably don't matter to Redline's typical customer versus someone who walks into Pep Boys and buys a case of oil for their DIY change.

 

[dparm]

My father looked in the manual and told me "it says to use oil that has API SM on the can". So there you go, API SM is required.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Redline can be had for < $11 USD per liter. I can even get it locally and avoid shipping costs.

API approvals probably don't matter to Redline's typical customer versus someone who walks into Pep Boys and buys a case of oil for their DIY change.


The US dollar is on par with the Australian dollar now days if its is $11 / L over there then it is approx 3.3 times the cost over here.

Some say you get what you pay for, at that price they know what that can do with it and where they can strategically store it long term. eg shove it somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Norm Olt]

Am I missing something? Last time I recall that an oil rated SN would meet or exceed all previous designations, i.e. "SM, SL, etc".

Why not just use a quality SN 5W-30?

Cheers!

p.s. If the manual called for an SG-rated oil would you hesitate to use one rated SH, SL, SM, etc.?