VOA MMO?

Originally Posted By: BobFout


Taken injectors off, or apart?


Both
grin.gif


They don't come all that far apart, but I've seen varnished up injectors (and have cleaned them up) of the same brand, size and style as the ones I pulled out of my Mustang for example. The Mustang ones were spotless. The car was driven a lot, which is key to keeping them clean. I didn't use additives, just Petro Canada gasoline.

The gummed up ones were sitting in a taxi cab for a number of years in a wreckers, so they had a fair amount of varnish in them.
 
With MMO's KV100 of 2.64cSt the main effect as far as I can see of adding MMO to engine oil is too reduce the viscosity.
Added to a 10cSt 30wt oil at the maximum dosage of 25% would give you a very light 20wt 7.0cSt oil.
Added to a heavy 30wt oil like GC will still reduce the viscosity to that of a 20wt 8.0cSt oil.
Added to a 40wt like M1 0W-40 would still result in a 20wt 8.6cSt oil.

What I would really like to know is what the KV40 spec' is for MMO. This would provide the viscosity index which I suspect it is quite low, in the 100 area. If I'm right, not only are you reducing the operating viscosity of the oil when you add MMO but also the oil's VI. If that's the case, one would be better off adding an ultra high VI (216) oil like the Toyota 0W-20. In so doing, you'll be reducing the operating viscosity but also increasing the oil's VI, thereby reducing the start-up viscosity disproportionately.

Using the GC example, 25% Toyota 0W-20 would still leave you with a reasonable heavy 11.1cSt, 3.3cP HTHSV 0W-30 oil but with the VI improved from 166 to about 178.
 
According to the Blackstone report, there is 634 ppm Phosphorous, but no Zinc. What AW additive has Phosphorous and no Zinc?
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
With MMO's KV100 of 2.64cSt the main effect as far as I can see of adding MMO to engine oil is too reduce the viscosity.
Added to a 10cSt 30wt oil at the maximum dosage of 25% would give you a very light 20wt 7.0cSt oil.
Added to a heavy 30wt oil like GC will still reduce the viscosity to that of a 20wt 8.0cSt oil.
Added to a 40wt like M1 0W-40 would still result in a 20wt 8.6cSt oil.

What I would really like to know is what the KV40 spec' is for MMO. This would provide the viscosity index which I suspect it is quite low, in the 100 area. If I'm right, not only are you reducing the operating viscosity of the oil when you add MMO but also the oil's VI. If that's the case, one would be better off adding an ultra high VI (216) oil like the Toyota 0W-20. In so doing, you'll be reducing the operating viscosity but also increasing the oil's VI, thereby reducing the start-up viscosity disproportionately.

Using the GC example, 25% Toyota 0W-20 would still leave you with a reasonable heavy 11.1cSt, 3.3cP HTHSV 0W-30 oil but with the VI improved from 166 to about 178.


A ratio of 25% MMO would be considered pretty extreme, you definitely would have to watch for grade reduction if you were going to use such a high percentage. Used in moderation, say the 10-15 percent more commonly used, it becomes less of an issue.
 
MMO recommends substituting a quart of MMO during an oil change which is 1qt in 3 for a 4qt sump (25%) and 1 qt in 4 for a 5qt sump (20%). As extreme as it sounds that what they recommend.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
According to the Blackstone report, there is 634 ppm Phosphorous, but no Zinc. What AW additive has Phosphorous and no Zinc?

Tricresyl phosphate AKA TCP. It's an ashless antiwear additive used in airplane engine oils. Since MMO can be used in gasoline, they had to use an ashless antiwear additive.
 
Any benefit to squirting some MMO through spark plug holes in infrequently run antique engines like mine to use as an upper cylinder lubricant? Or is there something better?
 
Quote:


38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous [Tricresyl phosphate AKA TCP.]
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.



should I be worried for the cats if I use it as a fuel add'v?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ueberooo

should I be worried for the cats if I use it as a fuel add'v?




I wouldn't worry. My 93 Aerostar has 205,000 miles and I've owned it since 53,000 miles. It's had MMO in about every tank of gas since I bought it, with some occasional TCW3 and FI cleaner. Original 02 Sensor and CC. 88 E-150 has seen it since new, I only have 77K miles on it though, still original CC. Don't sweat it.
 
Originally Posted By: vintageant
Any benefit to squirting some MMO through spark plug holes in infrequently run antique engines like mine to use as an upper cylinder lubricant? Or is there something better?


It will work just fine for preventing sticking rings and flash rusting. Just turn the engine over to distribute it.
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
According to the Blackstone report, there is 634 ppm Phosphorous, but no Zinc. What AW additive has Phosphorous and no Zinc?

Tricresyl phosphate AKA TCP. It's an ashless antiwear additive used in airplane engine oils. Since MMO can be used in gasoline, they had to use an ashless antiwear additive.


Interesting!

Thanks, JAG.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
According to the Blackstone report, there is 634 ppm Phosphorous, but no Zinc. What AW additive has Phosphorous and no Zinc?

Tricresyl phosphate AKA TCP. It's an ashless antiwear additive used in airplane engine oils. Since MMO can be used in gasoline, they had to use an ashless antiwear additive.

Interesting!
Thanks, JAG.

Yes, thanks JAG.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
MMO recommends substituting a quart of MMO during an oil change which is 1qt in 3 for a 4qt sump (25%) and 1 qt in 4 for a 5qt sump (20%). As extreme as it sounds that what they recommend.
You'll have to re-read the bottle. But typically, the treatment rate is 20% - so in a 5 quart crankcase, you use 1 quart of MMO, and 4 quarts of motor oil.....

If the vehicle takes any "less" than 5 quarts, I typically don't fool with the math, and just use a pint.....sure it's a less-concentrated dosage, but I'd rather deal with the pints and quartsm, than measuring and figuring out the "exact" ratio/percentage :p

I.E.: My arries holds 4.5 quarts....easy just to add 4 quarts of motor oil, and 1 pint of MMO.....
 
Originally Posted By: ueberooo
should I be worried for the cats if I use it as a fuel add'v?
If you are using it as directed (no more than 4 oz. per 10 gallons of fuel....) I would not be worried.


I've been using it in almost every one of my fill ups too in my 88 Aries, without a hitch.....

If you go any more with the MMO, you risk lowering the octane too much......remember, MMO is a slow cleaner...and a [censored] good "Upper Cylinder Lube" - it doesn't take much to do a lot, particularly when you use it tank-to-tank...
 
Originally Posted By: ueberooo
isn't the phos harmful for the cat? or is it more the Zn than the P in ZDDP that does the harm?


If it does I'm still waiting to replace a CC with 205,000 miles on it and MMO use for over 150,000 miles of it.
 
Quote:
Any benefit to squirting some MMO through spark plug holes in infrequently run antique engines like mine to use as an upper cylinder lubricant? Or is there something better?


For antique engines and to keep cylinder rust under control, I would use LC20.
 
What indicates that LC20 will better protect against corrosion than just motor oil? It seems to me that it is less viscous, and therefore would wash down faster, Id think.

But since I have cars that sit a lot, this is a very important question to me.
 
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