Motor Oil Selection for 97 BMW M3

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This is starting to make sense.
An oil's viscosity is related to temperature, so if low oil temperatures are known to prevail, a much thinner than recommended oil would work with no problems.
I notice that you've put your engine where your mouth is, so I think you must have carefully considered any potential downside to using a much thinner than recommended oil in your 328i.
Maybe my M42 can get some 10W-30 (which I believe you consider an obsolete grade) or 5W-30 once I've run all of the thicker stuff through it.
 
That's the advantage of an OP gauge, it's virtually impossible to run an oil too light with one.
You determine what minimum OP at high rev's your comfortable with and if you can acheive that with a 20wt or light 30wt with the oil at normal operating temp's (after 30 minutes of running time)then that as thick an oil as you need. If oil temp's run higher than normal, it's almost always directly related to how fast you're driving, simply slow down and the oil temp's will recede with a corresponding rise in OP.

You will also know if the oil you've chosen shears in service and/or if you have a fuel dilution issue. These will both reduce you're OP and you can take immediate remedial action if necessary.

I like to think of an OP gauge as an on board viscosity meter or viscometer which is what effectively it is since the gauge actually measures the back preasure or resistance of the oil's flow though the bearings of the engine.
 
Too bad oil pressure gauges have become so rare, then.
What brand would you recommend?
Can you use the existing idiot light sender?
Changing the sender certainly isn't much of a job, though, although I'd prefer an electric gauge to a capillary tube one.
The last car I had with a real oil pressure gauge was my MGB, and it did indeed tell you when the oil was heating too much and becoming too thin.
Backing off a bit brought OP up as temperature was reduced.
A real gauge, with no built in damping, will show variations in oil pressure all of the time, which some owners might find disconcerting.
The same is true of a real temperature gauge.
Values change constantly, with a mild upgrade bringing an increase in temperature, while temperature declines noticeably on even a slight downgrade.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

A real gauge, with no built in damping, will show variations in oil pressure all of the time, which some owners might find disconcerting.
The same is true of a real temperature gauge.
Values change constantly, with a mild upgrade bringing an increase in temperature, while temperature declines noticeably on even a slight downgrade.

Oil pressure values will change with rpm quite dramatically particularly once up to temperature. It's not a problem of course. I've never heard of damped gauges although some factory gauges in Mercedes and Porsches for example are pegged before maximum OP is acheived for some inexplicable reason.
Yes OP gauges used to be quite common particularly on European cars. But even with a gauge it takes some education and understanding of motor oil to fully appreciate it's meaning.

I have oil temp' gauges as well but I wouldn't agree that the temp's rise and fall that dramatically in my experience but it is very much vehicle specific. Oil temp's lag coolant temp's during the warming up process by a large margin although in a car with a coolant to oil heat exchanger that difference can be shortened considerably.
Once up to normal operating temp's, it usually takes quite an extended period of WOT to raise the oil temp's further but once raised as you'll see during some flat out running during a track session, on the cool down lap the oil temp's return to normal very quickly indeed.

To be honest, it is only us oil nerds that appreciate and benefit from oil gauges and that I'm sure is the main reason that cars today no longer come with them.
 
You've never heard of damped gauges?
On our old Aerostar, the oil pressure gauge would settle into its normal range and almost never move.
On our old Mercedes cars, the oil pressure gauge was always pegged in normal operation, and came off the peg only on hot idle.
The same is true of coolant temperature gauges.
Both of my Hondas are like this, as is my BMW, as was the old Aerostar, as well as earlier Hondas that we had.
The coolant temperature gauge simply settles into its normal range and then never moves over what is a fairly wide range of coolant temperatures.
If the needle does head upward, something bad is probably happening and action is required.
 
Yes, same questions. '98 SAAB 2.0 Turbo, manual recommends oils according to the temperature: from 5W-30 up to 20W-50. Silly thing to consider all circumstances and driving habits in advance the oil change, so high HTHS viscosity and high VI 'fully' synthetic 5W40 looks fine all-year-round.
(This car was owned by a family member of BMW dealership/garage: they put in Mobil 1 5W50 (probably, due to severe highway & German autobahn usage)).
 
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OP and oil temp gauges would be awesome...I think I'll look into installing those.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
That's the advantage of an OP gauge, it's virtually impossible to run an oil too light with one.
You determine what minimum OP at high rev's your comfortable with and if you can acheive that with a 20wt or light 30wt with the oil at normal operating temp's (after 30 minutes of running time)then that as thick an oil as you need.

That actually reminds me something Dr. Haas wrote in the Motor Oil University articles:
Quote:
"The best way to figure out what viscosity of oil you need is to drive the car in the conditions you will use. Then use the oil viscosity that gives you 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM under those circumstances. For some reason very few people are able to get this simple principal correct. I cannot explain further."

When I first read this statement it didn't make sense, because I didn't know how one would be aware of what oil pressure PSI you had at given rpms, but now I see that if you install an OP gauge, you can monitor the PSI at various rpms as you drive and see if you can get away with a thinner oil like an 0W-20 when the car specs a 5W-30. I really wish more cars did come with OP gauges now, but I agree, it's really only us nerds who obsess over this kind of stuff who would actually care to have one...

Thanks for all the info Caterham. This afternoon I fired up the old M3 and did some highway joyriding for about an hour, got it home and drained the oil. I'm letting it continue to drip out overnight in the garage, which is my typical oil change procedure. I picked up 7qts of M1 0W-40 European Formula at Wal-Mart while I was out running around and I'll throw that in tomorrow with a new OEM Mahle filter before heading off to work. Now I just wish I had an OP gauge so I could see how the motor is responding to the new oil and my driving style...
 
Well the engine definitely idles smoother and quieter at sub-30F temperatures with the M1 0W-40 instead of the M1 10W-30 that I had in there. Wont ever use that stuff again...wish I would have found this forum a long time ago!

The car seemed to run a lot better when I drove it today too; I think it really does like this oil better than any other oil I've used before. I got out my Peak scangauge and read out the CEL codes--all were related to O2 sensor problems, so those are obviously due and I'll be replacing them ASAP.
 
I had a 97 M3 for a while. However, at the time, I was 18 and knew nothing about oil.

I took it once to a Strauss Auto where I got a oil change with 5w30 Castrol Dino because it was on sale. . . .

I would have a stroke now even if that stuff was in my VW!! lol

As said, M1 0w40 is a great oil. One of the best around. And with M1 on sale every so often, it's a good all around choice for your car!
 
Originally Posted By: batook
Well the engine definitely idles smoother and quieter at sub-30F temperatures with the M1 0W-40 instead of the M1 10W-30 that I had in there. Wont ever use that stuff again...wish I would have found this forum a long time ago!

The car seemed to run a lot better when I drove it today too; I think it really does like this oil better than any other oil I've used before. I got out my Peak scangauge and read out the CEL codes--all were related to O2 sensor problems, so those are obviously due and I'll be replacing them ASAP.


I would change those out ASAP since depending on which ones are bad, and how they are reading, you could be running VERY rich which results in fuel dilution (especially in cold ambient temps during open loop operation).

You do NOT want to pollute/dilute that phenomenal
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I would change those out ASAP since depending on which ones are bad, and how they are reading, you could be running VERY rich which results in fuel dilution (especially in cold ambient temps during open loop operation).

You do NOT want to pollute/dilute that phenomenal

Codes:
E9: Catalyst efficiency below threshold, clyinder #1-3
EA: Catalyst efficiency below threshold, clyinder #4-6
E6: Pre-cat Oxygen sensor response time, cylinder #4-6
E3: Oxygen sensor adoption limit, cylinder #1-3
E4: Oxygen sensor adoption limit, cylinder #4-6
CA: oxygen sensor control limit, cyl 1-3
CB: oxygen sensor control limit, cyl 4-6

I'm about to store it for the rest of the winter, so it wont be driven much Jan-April, if at all. New O2 sensors next spring, along with new 6-speed MT getrag from E-46 M3, 3.38 LSD from 98 auto M3, new coil springs/shocks, steering rack inner/outer tie rods, spark plugs, UUC motor/trans mounts, and whatever else I come across that needs renewal.
cool.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Did ANY of the E36 M3 models have the 6 speed gearbox??


Maybe, MAYBE the E36 "LTW".

bmw-lightweight-e36-m3-ltw.jpg


M3 Lightweight (LTW) (E36)

Beginning with the first E36 M3s delivered, BMW racers began pressuring BMW for a race-ready version with which to compete against Porsche 911s in sports-car racing.

In 1995, BMW relented and began building batches of the M3 LTW at BMW Individual. Upon completion they were sent to Prototype Technology Group (PTG) Racing in Virginia for final preparation, which included the front and rear Motorsport flag decals, and "trunk goodies." In the trunk there was a different oil pan with dual pick up oil pump, longer oil dipstick tube, front strut bar, lower x brace that owners could install at the risk of voiding the standard BMW warranty. The car also came with the normal M3 low wing mounted but most dealers installed the special high wing when prepping the car for sale. An adjustable front lower lip/spoiler was installed. Each new owner was given a 1 page legal document to sign stating that any installation of trunk items voided the new car warranty. The ECU had the top speed limiter removed which resulted in a drag induced top speed. Forged 17" alloy wheels, 7½" wide in the front and 8½" wide in the rear, mounted with identically sized 235/40-17 tires front and rear were an additional difference from the standard 17" × 7½" cast alloy wheels mounted with 235/40-17 tires on standard M3s. A 3.23 rear differential was installed vs the normal 3.15 installed in 1995 model year M3's.[8]

Although BMW promised to build at least 85 examples, BMW never released the number of M3 LTWs built, and because of the peculiar assembly line, to this day may not be known. However, enthusiasts now believe that there exist approximately 120 models.

The first two cars, which were used as press cars, are not technically M3 LTWs as they were regular production M3s that PTG made similar in appearance to the not-yet-built LTW. After press duties, those two cars were brought back into the PTG stable.


Otherwise.. no.

5-speed is plenty fine in the BMW.

And i just discovered a rare BMW i can seek out i like MUCH more than the stupid E46 ZHP...

M3 CSL
A silver-grey BMW M3 CSL.

The BMW M3 CSL (Coupé Sport Leichtbau)[16] was a limited edition version of the M3, with only 1,400 cars being produced for its 2004 model year run.[17] The CSL was never released into the North American market,[18] and was only available in two colors – Silver Grey Metallic and Black Sapphire Metallic.[19]

As its name suggests, an emphasis was put on reducing weight. The M3 CSL has a curb weight of 1,385 kg (3,050 lb), 110 kg (240 lb) lighter than the regular M3.[20][21][22] The CSL features many weight saving technologies taken from BMW's Formula One racing applications.[23] A large proportion of the M3's sound insulation has been removed,electric seats, and navigation systems.[18] Air conditioning and stereo systems could be retrofitted free of cost, but were not available standard.[21] The CSL's unique body pieces are all crafted from carbon fiber reinforced polymer.[20] Glass-reinforced plastics are used throughout structural points in the car.[21] The standard rear window was replaced with one made from thinner glass.[citation needed] Although the CSL loses a considerable amount of curb weight from its original version, the focus was put on strategically reducing or moving the weight in the car rather than the raw amount of weight that could be lost.[24] This is to retain the ideal 50:50 weight distribution characteristics the E46 has.[20] For example, the roof is constructed from carbon fiber reinforced plastic.[20] While this only reduces the curb weight of the car by 7 kg (15 lb), it lowers the center of gravity of the car and decreases body flex.[19][24]
A black M3 E46 CSL.

In order to improve the handling ability of the car, the entire suspension system was further refined.[20] Specially developed racing springs and dampers are given to the CSL, and a tightened steering ratio (14.5:1 vs 15.4:1 on the regular M3) improves responsiveness.[23] The braking system is also modified, with larger front and rear floating rotors and calipers from the E39 M5.[18][19] The CSL is given a retuned dynamic stability control system with a "M track mode" setting that allows the car to be pushed to its absolute limits before being activated.[23]

The 3.2 L engine used in the M3, the BMW S54, has been modified to increased output by 17 hp (13 kW) and 5 N·m (1 lbf) over the European M3.[19][23] This is achieved through a high flow carbon fiber air intake, modified valve and camshaft timing, and a retuned DME.[19][23] However, the engine is further modified in order to reduce weight – it features a lightweight exhaust manifold and thinner exhaust piping.[23] Additionally, the intake and exhaust manifolds are slightly straightened to improve engine responsiveness.[18]

The CSL also has various aesthetic modifications over the standard M3. It received an aerodynamic lightweight body kit which included carbon fiber front splitters that improved downforce at high speeds by 50%,[20] as well as a carbon fiber rear diffuser. The front bumper has a distinct hole that is used to draw cool air into the newly designed air intake.[20] The trunk floor is made of lightweight fiberboard. The trunk lid is redesigned to incorporate a raised lip, unlike the standard M3 where one is simply added onto a flat trunk.[20] The CSL was sold with distinct 19 inch lightweight forged BBS alloy rims that came with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup semi-slick racing tires.[19][25] The interior of the CSL is redesigned with a sporty-weight saving theme. The CSL obtains fiberglass front racing bucket seats,[20] and fiberglass backed rear seats.[20] The center console, door panels and trim, and headliner are all formed from carbon fiber,[19][20] and the steering wheel is redesigned with cruise control, stereo, and phone controls removed to include just a single button that activates the M track mode.[19]

Unlike the standard M3, which was offered with a standard 6-speed Getrag transmission, or optionally a SMG drivelogic transmission (also known as the SMG II), the CSL was offered only with the SMG II transmission.[23] This is the standard 6-speed Getrag transmission with an electrohydraulically actuated clutch pedal, similar to an Formula One style transmission.[19] However, the CSL received a more advanced drivelogic unit than the standard M3 that was capable of making shifts in 0.08 of a second.[19][23]


As to oil i would put in either a 0W-40 or perhaps just maybe a 15W-50 in her. Probably Mobil 1 but i would not rule out Royal Purple SN 0W-40. I do not think i would use GC in this car, unless i had an oil pressure gauge, and even then, id have to debate.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver

I would change those out ASAP since depending on which ones are bad, and how they are reading, you could be running VERY rich which results in fuel dilution (especially in cold ambient temps during open loop operation).

I doubt its running that rich since my MPG is still hovering around 25-26 which is what I've always gotten in it, but I agree, the O2 sensors are due and will be replaced in short order. Thanks for the reply. It's still running a lot better on the new M1 0W-40. FWIW, I cleared the codes 2 weeks ago and they have not returned as of yet.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Did ANY of the E36 M3 models have the 6 speed gearbox??

All Euro-spec E36 M3s came with a 6-speed gearbox. It is actually the same 6-speed getrag that they used in the 01-06 E46 M3s in the US, which is why you can easily transplant the 6-speed from the E46 M3 into a US-spec E36 M3.
This link details what is needed to do the swap:http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/98M3/upgrades/E46M3_6SPD/
 
Hey everyone, this is my first post on this forum, but I've been a lurker here on BITOG for a long time. Finally decided to get my feet wet and post, seeing as this is an issue I am quite familiar with
smile.gif

First off, however, I owe all of you a big THANK YOU for everything that I have learned in reading these forums over the past few years... I hope that I can give back even 1/100000th of what I've taken away from here!
Anyways, on to the post...
*PS: CSL's are incredible cars, but good luck getting one here in the US... It's one of BMW's many jokes on us Americans...
frown.gif


First, a little background.....
I am what some might call a BMW Enthusiast, having owned a number of BMW's, most of which were modified to some degree (from fairly basic wheels/lowering/bolt-ons/appearance to barely-street-legal monsters). This has included the venerable E36 M3, a 1999 model (S52B32), which was used as a street and Auto-X/Track car. In fact, all the cars I have modified for autocross/road-course use have retained full daily-driveability.

Currently, I have my long-time E46 328Ci in my stable, alongside a 2001 E46 325i Sport (a European-Delivery car) and a 1998 740i Sport. I've been waiting for the exact-right E46 M3 ('04-'06, *Competition Pkg, no sunroof, zero modifications or at least very minor ones, etc) for the past year, and this M3 will be a "forever car", like the 3 I have now: I keep them forever (unless they are wrecked beyond repair, or I get offered WAY more than it's worth).
- 325i serves as a four-door daily driver (Silver over Black, 5MT/Sport/Euro), basic mods (suspension/brakes/bolt-ons/drivetrain/appearance/etc)
- 740i Sport serves as a much more luxurious "cruising" car (Grey over Dove Grey Leather, AT/Sport/Premium/HK-Audio/CD-Changer/etc), basic mods (appearance/brakes/suspension/bolt-ons/etc)
- 328Ci is my heavily-modified car (Topaz Blue over Dove Grey Leather, with: 5MT/Sport/Premium/Cold/HK/HIDs/CD-Changer/etc; every option) which is used for both 8month daily-driving as well as autocross and track use. It's gone through a number of "phases", including N/A and F/I builds, but I'm running out of things to do to it
wink.gif
But, for a 2000MY car, it only has ~78xxx miles on it, so I've got PLENTY of time
laugh.gif


I don't want to bore you to death, but I do feel inclined to give you a BRIEF overview of my 328Ci's "more notable" mods...
*Engine: Gone Through A LOT of Stuff... In current F/I Form, it's making: 423rwhp/386rwtq (last N/A dyno tune resulted in: 244.8rwhp/234.9rwtq; both done on same Mustang Dyno)
- ESS TSE2+ Lysholm Twin-Screw Supercharger with Intercooler @ 12psi
- Forged Carillo Connecting Rods, Schrick Cams, New Valves and Titanium Valve Springs/Seats, etc...
- Active Autowerke Ceramic Equal-Length Tubular Headers (have a pair of 100cell Metallic cats that I use... occasionally...) with SwainTech Ceramic Coating (engine bay has dropped at least 40*F)
- Mixture of Eisenmann Race and UUC TSE3 Exhaust
- aFe Stage1 Cold Air Intake OR M3-style Bimmerworld Full-Carbon Intake and Manifold Adapter (modified for use with S/C), Silicone Intake Boot (between intake and S/C)
- Custom Dyno-Tuned ESS Software (with parts of my Conforti tune still there)
- UUC Underdrive Pulleys, Stewart High-Flow Waterpump, Fluidyne Radiator, Samco Silicone Coolant Hoses (ALL)
- 6-Speed Manual Transmission from 2006 330Ci ZHP
- 10lb Flywheel and Stage2 Organic Clutch, UUC SS Clutch Line, Rogue Engineering Transmission Mounts with SS "Cups" for stiffer mount, UUC EVO3 Short Shift Kit with Dual Sheer Selecting Rod, ZHP Shift Knob
- Custom Quaife Limited-Slip Differential (3.23:1), Finned Differential Cover
- Intake Manifold has been "Extrudehoned" and all Intake/Exhaust parts have been coated by SwainTech
*Suspension: 100% Revamped (no original parts remain)
- TC Kline Smart Design D/A School/Track Coilover Kit (Track/Auto-X/Road-Course/etc; very stiff)
- KW Variant 3 Coilover Kit (*Street/Track; much better for daily-driving)
- Rogue Engineering/Ground Control Rear Shock Mounts, BMW Performance Forged Front Control Arms, 66mm PowerFlex Front Control Arm Bushings/Housings, FULL PowerFlex/Rogue Engineering Bushings (incl: subframe, differential, etc), Turner Motorsport FULL Reinforcement Kit (F/R Subframe, F/R Shock Towers, F/R Sway Bar Mounts, etc), TMS Adjustable Sway Bar End Links, UUC Rear Lower Control Arm Bearings, etc
- Hotchkis F/R Adj.Sway Bars, Rogue Engineering "Race" 1pc Front Strut Tie Bar, UUC Full-Magnesium 1pc Rear Strut Tie Bar, UUC Chromoly Adjustable Rear Control/Camber Arms, Ground Control Stage 2 3-way Adjustable Front Camber Plates, Semi-Solid Differential Mounts, etc...
*Brakes: 100% New
- Front StopTech 6-Piston Monobloc Calipers (StopTech Ultimate Pads for street), StopTech 360mm Slotted/Vented Front Rotors (Two-Piece Floating), Stainless Steel Brake Lines
- Rear StopTech 4-Piston Monobloc Calipers (ST Ultimate Pads), ST 352mm Slotted/Vented Rear Rotors (2pc Floating), SS Brake Lines
- M3 Main Cylinder, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, etc
*Wheels/Tires: Street/Track (note: car has been converted to lug studs for easier mounting, as I switch often)
- 19" BBS LM Wheels (19x8.5" Front and 19x9.5" Rear) with Pirelli P-Zero Nero Tires (235width front, 255width rear) for street use
- 18" J-Line 5LR2 Wheels (18x9" F and 18x10" R) w Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (245 fronts, 275 rears) for track use
- 19" DPE R07 Variant-S (19x8.5" F and 19x9.5" R) w Michelin Super Sports (235 fronts, 255 rears) for street use
*Appearance: (everything painted to match except small CF accents)
- Full M-Tech 2 Kit (Front/Rear Bumpers, Side Skirts, etc) with Carbon Fiber Splitters (front bumper) and Vorsteiner Carbon Fiber Rear Diffuser
- Vorsteiner Double-Sided Carbon Fiber CSL Trunk
- Vorsteiner Double-Sided CF "GTR" Hood
- Vorsteiner Full Carbon Fiber Roof
- Carbon Fiber M3 Mirrors, Headlight Inserts, Kidney Grills, Brake Ducts, etc
- Projector Fog Lights w 65w 4500K Xenon Bulbs, 70w 4500K Xenon Lows, FX45 Projectors for Highs with 100w 4300K Bulbs, Clear Corners, LED Clear Tails, painted side markers, full-LED Interior Lighting, etc
*Interior:
- Pioneer AVIC3 7" Double-Din Touchscreen head-unit, BSW Stage 1+ Full Speaker Upgrade, BSW Ultra-Light 10" Subwoofer Enclosure, 3 JL Audio Amplifiers
- Recaro Pole Position Adjustable Seats (Driver/Passenger), Alcantara headliner, M3 Steering Wheel, ZHP Shift Knob, Alcantara Shift Boot, Carbon Fiber Trim, Carbon Fiber Center Console, and more
- Tinted Windows (F L/R, R L/R, R)


Sorry for all of that, I just keep an Excel File of mods, and so I copied/pasted the biggest ones... although that's only about 1/3 the list
wink.gif



Anyway, my opinions would be this:

I run Redline and Royal Purple almost exclusively, and as often as I work on/take apart my engines, I cannot believe how clean they stay. Red Line 5w40 is used for track days (and the weeks leading up to the track day), and Royal Purple 5w40 is used for daily driving and RP 5w30 is used as well, typically when the temps go down a bit.
I use Redline D4 ATF in all of my transmissions, change it every 15-30k, and their 75w90 in non-limited-slip differentials (I use a special fluid I get direct from Quaife for my LSD). Motul I use for brake fluid in all my cars, regardless of track use or not (RBF600, only use the 660 on days where it's above 105*F ambient).

I have used Amsoil, but had oil starvation issues. Don't know if it was the Amsoil's fault, but that has NEVER happened with either Redline or Royal Purple.


For the record, the BMW OE Oil is [censored]! I was using it for my 325i, and now at 148k miles it has sludge all over the place! Currently I have Royal Purple 5w30 in it (I know there is sludge because I just replaced the valve cover gasket, spark plugs, all fluids, etc), and already it is running/idling MUCH better. Not placebo, as the valve-train does indeed look cleaner. I am running a 3k OCI, then will do another 3k OCI but with MMO, then another 3k OCI with more MMO, then a 3k OCI with SeaFoam for the last 250miles (I have used Seafoam on TONS of cars, including M3's, never with any problem!).

BMW FACTORY OIL WILL CAUSE SLUDGE! I've seen it before, but always chalked it up to people doing 15k+ OCI's, and that at 7.5-9k max, they'd have been fine... Well, I do 5k MAX on even my commuter, and it still sludged like crazy. I WILL NEVER RECOMMEND BMW'S OIL!

Also, I have seen the EXACT SAME THING HAPPEN with Mobil One 5w40 used in the M52/M54/S52/S54 engines, when the OCI is greater-than 5k miles. IT WILL sludge, probably less so if you change your oil filter 2-3x per OCI, which has helped me greatly.

The Mobil One 5w40 was what was run in my 328Ci until it hit ~42k miles (I got it at 28k), and while I followed 7.5k OCI's, the PO must not have... It took me about 5x 3k OCI's with HDEO's and things like MMO to get it super-clean like I need it to be. Since using EXCLUSIVELY Redline/Royal Purple, I have never had a single issue... VANOS is still operating at 100%, and this is a 12-year-old car with a high-PSI supercharger and OE Compression Levels...



I promise I'm not here to stir any controversy, I just wanted to give my experience with these cars and their very-temper-mental attitudes towards engine oils.

If I were you (and I have been, as I've run E36 M3's... both fully-built NA and FI cars), I'd run Royal Purple 5w40 or Redline 5w40; do 5-7.5k OCI's, and use K&N/Mann/Mahle Oil Filters. Change more frequently if using an aftermarket intake, less if using all stock intake.

Hope that helps some!

Glad to be here and a part of this awesome community!
 
Originally Posted By: nleksan
Hey everyone, this is my first post on this forum, but I've been a lurker here on BITOG for a long time. Finally decided to get my feet wet and post, seeing as this is an issue I am quite familiar with
smile.gif

First off, however, I owe all of you a big THANK YOU for everything that I have learned in reading these forums over the past few years... I hope that I can give back even 1/100000th of what I've taken away from here!
Anyways, on to the post...
*PS: CSL's are incredible cars, but good luck getting one here in the US... It's one of BMW's many jokes on us Americans...
frown.gif


First, a little background.....
I am what some might call a BMW Enthusiast, having owned a number of BMW's, most of which were modified to some degree (from fairly basic wheels/lowering/bolt-ons/appearance to barely-street-legal monsters). This has included the venerable E36 M3, a 1999 model (S52B32), which was used as a street and Auto-X/Track car. In fact, all the cars I have modified for autocross/road-course use have retained full daily-driveability.

Currently, I have my long-time E46 328Ci in my stable, alongside a 2001 E46 325i Sport (a European-Delivery car) and a 1998 740i Sport. I've been waiting for the exact-right E46 M3 ('04-'06, *Competition Pkg, no sunroof, zero modifications or at least very minor ones, etc) for the past year, and this M3 will be a "forever car", like the 3 I have now: I keep them forever (unless they are wrecked beyond repair, or I get offered WAY more than it's worth).
- 325i serves as a four-door daily driver (Silver over Black, 5MT/Sport/Euro), basic mods (suspension/brakes/bolt-ons/drivetrain/appearance/etc)
- 740i Sport serves as a much more luxurious "cruising" car (Grey over Dove Grey Leather, AT/Sport/Premium/HK-Audio/CD-Changer/etc), basic mods (appearance/brakes/suspension/bolt-ons/etc)
- 328Ci is my heavily-modified car (Topaz Blue over Dove Grey Leather, with: 5MT/Sport/Premium/Cold/HK/HIDs/CD-Changer/etc; every option) which is used for both 8month daily-driving as well as autocross and track use. It's gone through a number of "phases", including N/A and F/I builds, but I'm running out of things to do to it
wink.gif
But, for a 2000MY car, it only has ~78xxx miles on it, so I've got PLENTY of time
laugh.gif


I don't want to bore you to death, but I do feel inclined to give you a BRIEF overview of my 328Ci's "more notable" mods...
*Engine: Gone Through A LOT of Stuff... In current F/I Form, it's making: 423rwhp/386rwtq (last N/A dyno tune resulted in: 244.8rwhp/234.9rwtq; both done on same Mustang Dyno)
- ESS TSE2+ Lysholm Twin-Screw Supercharger with Intercooler @ 12psi
- Forged Carillo Connecting Rods, Schrick Cams, New Valves and Titanium Valve Springs/Seats, etc...
- Active Autowerke Ceramic Equal-Length Tubular Headers (have a pair of 100cell Metallic cats that I use... occasionally...) with SwainTech Ceramic Coating (engine bay has dropped at least 40*F)
- Mixture of Eisenmann Race and UUC TSE3 Exhaust
- aFe Stage1 Cold Air Intake OR M3-style Bimmerworld Full-Carbon Intake and Manifold Adapter (modified for use with S/C), Silicone Intake Boot (between intake and S/C)
- Custom Dyno-Tuned ESS Software (with parts of my Conforti tune still there)
- UUC Underdrive Pulleys, Stewart High-Flow Waterpump, Fluidyne Radiator, Samco Silicone Coolant Hoses (ALL)
- 6-Speed Manual Transmission from 2006 330Ci ZHP
- 10lb Flywheel and Stage2 Organic Clutch, UUC SS Clutch Line, Rogue Engineering Transmission Mounts with SS "Cups" for stiffer mount, UUC EVO3 Short Shift Kit with Dual Sheer Selecting Rod, ZHP Shift Knob
- Custom Quaife Limited-Slip Differential (3.23:1), Finned Differential Cover
- Intake Manifold has been "Extrudehoned" and all Intake/Exhaust parts have been coated by SwainTech
*Suspension: 100% Revamped (no original parts remain)
- TC Kline Smart Design D/A School/Track Coilover Kit (Track/Auto-X/Road-Course/etc; very stiff)
- KW Variant 3 Coilover Kit (*Street/Track; much better for daily-driving)
- Rogue Engineering/Ground Control Rear Shock Mounts, BMW Performance Forged Front Control Arms, 66mm PowerFlex Front Control Arm Bushings/Housings, FULL PowerFlex/Rogue Engineering Bushings (incl: subframe, differential, etc), Turner Motorsport FULL Reinforcement Kit (F/R Subframe, F/R Shock Towers, F/R Sway Bar Mounts, etc), TMS Adjustable Sway Bar End Links, UUC Rear Lower Control Arm Bearings, etc
- Hotchkis F/R Adj.Sway Bars, Rogue Engineering "Race" 1pc Front Strut Tie Bar, UUC Full-Magnesium 1pc Rear Strut Tie Bar, UUC Chromoly Adjustable Rear Control/Camber Arms, Ground Control Stage 2 3-way Adjustable Front Camber Plates, Semi-Solid Differential Mounts, etc...
*Brakes: 100% New
- Front StopTech 6-Piston Monobloc Calipers (StopTech Ultimate Pads for street), StopTech 360mm Slotted/Vented Front Rotors (Two-Piece Floating), Stainless Steel Brake Lines
- Rear StopTech 4-Piston Monobloc Calipers (ST Ultimate Pads), ST 352mm Slotted/Vented Rear Rotors (2pc Floating), SS Brake Lines
- M3 Main Cylinder, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, etc
*Wheels/Tires: Street/Track (note: car has been converted to lug studs for easier mounting, as I switch often)
- 19" BBS LM Wheels (19x8.5" Front and 19x9.5" Rear) with Pirelli P-Zero Nero Tires (235width front, 255width rear) for street use
- 18" J-Line 5LR2 Wheels (18x9" F and 18x10" R) w Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (245 fronts, 275 rears) for track use
- 19" DPE R07 Variant-S (19x8.5" F and 19x9.5" R) w Michelin Super Sports (235 fronts, 255 rears) for street use
*Appearance: (everything painted to match except small CF accents)
- Full M-Tech 2 Kit (Front/Rear Bumpers, Side Skirts, etc) with Carbon Fiber Splitters (front bumper) and Vorsteiner Carbon Fiber Rear Diffuser
- Vorsteiner Double-Sided Carbon Fiber CSL Trunk
- Vorsteiner Double-Sided CF "GTR" Hood
- Vorsteiner Full Carbon Fiber Roof
- Carbon Fiber M3 Mirrors, Headlight Inserts, Kidney Grills, Brake Ducts, etc
- Projector Fog Lights w 65w 4500K Xenon Bulbs, 70w 4500K Xenon Lows, FX45 Projectors for Highs with 100w 4300K Bulbs, Clear Corners, LED Clear Tails, painted side markers, full-LED Interior Lighting, etc
*Interior:
- Pioneer AVIC3 7" Double-Din Touchscreen head-unit, BSW Stage 1+ Full Speaker Upgrade, BSW Ultra-Light 10" Subwoofer Enclosure, 3 JL Audio Amplifiers
- Recaro Pole Position Adjustable Seats (Driver/Passenger), Alcantara headliner, M3 Steering Wheel, ZHP Shift Knob, Alcantara Shift Boot, Carbon Fiber Trim, Carbon Fiber Center Console, and more
- Tinted Windows (F L/R, R L/R, R)


Sorry for all of that, I just keep an Excel File of mods, and so I copied/pasted the biggest ones... although that's only about 1/3 the list
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Anyway, my opinions would be this:

I run Redline and Royal Purple almost exclusively, and as often as I work on/take apart my engines, I cannot believe how clean they stay. Red Line 5w40 is used for track days (and the weeks leading up to the track day), and Royal Purple 5w40 is used for daily driving and RP 5w30 is used as well, typically when the temps go down a bit.
I use Redline D4 ATF in all of my transmissions, change it every 15-30k, and their 75w90 in non-limited-slip differentials (I use a special fluid I get direct from Quaife for my LSD). Motul I use for brake fluid in all my cars, regardless of track use or not (RBF600, only use the 660 on days where it's above 105*F ambient).

I have used Amsoil, but had oil starvation issues. Don't know if it was the Amsoil's fault, but that has NEVER happened with either Redline or Royal Purple.


For the record, the BMW OE Oil is [censored]! I was using it for my 325i, and now at 148k miles it has sludge all over the place! Currently I have Royal Purple 5w30 in it (I know there is sludge because I just replaced the valve cover gasket, spark plugs, all fluids, etc), and already it is running/idling MUCH better. Not placebo, as the valve-train does indeed look cleaner. I am running a 3k OCI, then will do another 3k OCI but with MMO, then another 3k OCI with more MMO, then a 3k OCI with SeaFoam for the last 250miles (I have used Seafoam on TONS of cars, including M3's, never with any problem!).

BMW FACTORY OIL WILL CAUSE SLUDGE! I've seen it before, but always chalked it up to people doing 15k+ OCI's, and that at 7.5-9k max, they'd have been fine... Well, I do 5k MAX on even my commuter, and it still sludged like crazy. I WILL NEVER RECOMMEND BMW'S OIL!

Also, I have seen the EXACT SAME THING HAPPEN with Mobil One 5w40 used in the M52/M54/S52/S54 engines, when the OCI is greater-than 5k miles. IT WILL sludge, probably less so if you change your oil filter 2-3x per OCI, which has helped me greatly.

The Mobil One 5w40 was what was run in my 328Ci until it hit ~42k miles (I got it at 28k), and while I followed 7.5k OCI's, the PO must not have... It took me about 5x 3k OCI's with HDEO's and things like MMO to get it super-clean like I need it to be. Since using EXCLUSIVELY Redline/Royal Purple, I have never had a single issue... VANOS is still operating at 100%, and this is a 12-year-old car with a high-PSI supercharger and OE Compression Levels...



I promise I'm not here to stir any controversy, I just wanted to give my experience with these cars and their very-temper-mental attitudes towards engine oils.

If I were you (and I have been, as I've run E36 M3's... both fully-built NA and FI cars), I'd run Royal Purple 5w40 or Redline 5w40; do 5-7.5k OCI's, and use K&N/Mann/Mahle Oil Filters. Change more frequently if using an aftermarket intake, less if using all stock intake.

Hope that helps some!

Glad to be here and a part of this awesome community!


+1
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May iask why you dont use Redline and Royal Purple 0W-40, but rather the 5W-40?

And FTR, i too have watched the Motor Oil information closely and i too have come to the conclusion that Royal Purple and Redline, based on the things that the people that use them almost exclusively say about them, are oils i would feel more comfortable with than most any Mobil 1 or AMSOIL. I have found an AMSOIL i would consider, but its only for engines where a super thin oil is fine. The Mobil 1, not a bad oil but there are other oils i like better. Just agreeing with you.. and congrats on the BMW enthusiasm!
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And i used to use Castrol oils, now i think twice about even GC. Maybe if i was in a pinch and needed an off-the-shelf oil. or, if i have a low-performance engine, possible GC use. Other than that.. Castrol is BMW's factory oil.
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Originally Posted By: nleksan

Also, I have seen the EXACT SAME THING HAPPEN with Mobil One 5w40 used in the M52/M54/S52/S54 engines, when the OCI is greater-than 5k miles. IT WILL sludge, probably less so if you change your oil filter 2-3x per OCI, which has helped me greatly.

The Mobil One 5w40 was what was run in my 328Ci until it hit ~42k miles (I got it at 28k), and while I followed 7.5k OCI's, the PO must not have... It took me about 5x 3k OCI's with HDEO's and things like MMO to get it super-clean like I need it to be. Since using EXCLUSIVELY Redline/Royal Purple, I have never had a single issue... VANOS is still operating at 100%, and this is a 12-year-old car with a high-PSI supercharger and OE Compression Levels...


What Mobil 1 5w40? They don't sell a 5w40 grade under the Mobil 1 moniker that I know of in North America, only the Delvac 1 5w40 HDEO.
 
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