2003 Toyota Camry 3500 Miles M1R 0W30

[JohnBrowning]

First let me tell you how badly I treated this car this winter!!!

1) I start it up and as soon as my seat belt is on I am driveing.
2)95% of the trips were less then 10 miles most under 3.
3) 5 Days a week I would start the car up and drive 3 house's down to use my Mom and Dad's internet conection! IT is .3 miles total!
4) Temps were sub zero most of the time. Even now it is only a high of 21°F and low of 7°F!
5)I red line(close to it) it as soon as the coolant temp. is reading normal.
6) It took 6 months to put 3500 miles on it.
7)Lots of prolonged ideling when my family is with me to keep vechile warm while running errands!
8) Dureing this OCI I ran 1 bottle of B-12 Chemtool, 1/2 a bottle of Lucas UCL, 1 Bottle of Redline SI-1 and some LC through the fuel!
9) LC was used in the crank case at a rate of 4 onces initial fill and 1 once per 1000 miles!


Coments
John: Nothing too unsusal showed up in the first sample from your Camry. You do a lot of short trips and ideling, so we expected to find fuel dilution. This level is not high enough to be considered a problem and should decrease when summer rolls around. All wear looks great, showing no problems developing in that area. The universal averages column shows typical wear from this type of engine after about 3700 miles on the oil. No moisture or antifreeze was found. You could a little to your oil use. Try 4000 miles. Insolubles are going to be a limiting factor at this point!

code:

---

Al 2

CH 0

Fe 8

Co 1

PB 0

Tn 1

Mo 43

Bo 75

Si 10

Sd 6

Ca 1677

Mg 21

Ph 830

Zn 882



SUS 58.4

Flash 400

Fuel .5

Insol .5

---

[ March 10, 2005, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]

 

[railball]

I have a 03 Camry but yours is the V6 I'm sure. You can't beat a Honda or Totota engine. I would think you fall under extream conditions so early drains may be a good idea. I drained my M1 out of my Toyota just minutes ago(fun) 78 and sunny it was fun.I overfilled it by 12 oz after running it about 10 min. I syphoned it out and was shocked to see how dark it got.The oil was in only 7600 miles.I think anything past 5000 this will happen.

 

[Pablo]

Great!!

THAT is the worst for oil....but man, 3 houses?

P

 

[farrarfan1]

This looks like a good example of the machine serving the man. As it should be.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I have the 2.4 I4 2AZ-FE engine in this Camry!! I wish I had the V6!! Pablo, I lost my job 3 months ago so I elimanated all the perks like cable modem, hard phone line etc..... Mom and Dad live 3 houses down so I use their hard line for the internet. Pablo, I was getting ready to have my ankle operated on to repair tendons and ligaments when I lost my job! So I realy can not walk the 3 houses down on the ice and snow covered roads due to stability! I can walk on dry surfaces no problem but I lack stability on slick surfaces becasue of my bad ankle! Plus when it is below 40°F I do not walk unless I have too!!!

This was the first batch of M1R made available to the public. Notice how much of the additives were depleted! Even though the first M1R was not as stout as the latter version it is still odd to see this much additive plated up! I wounder if this plateing up of the additives is what kept the wear so low! I drive this car like I am training for the WRC!

This batch of M1R was sent to me by a member of this board. It arrived in the M1R box with each bottle double sealed. Each bottle was clearly labeled M1R. In addition to the factory sealed caps they had an additional "gorilla grip" seal to prevent any fluid from seeping out. I random picked 3 out of the six and removed the extra seal and inspected the OEM seal. I then opened them to make sure that I could see the seal breaking clean and fresh along with that "snaping" sound you get when you open a fresh bottle. It was the first time I had recieved product from this person so I checked them out well. I was convinced and am still convinced that the bottles had not been tampered with! You will also note that there is two different UOA signitures for this product! I think my UOA more closely resembles the first one not the second VOA.

P.S. I know it was low milage but the miles it did see were very bad miles as far as oil is concerned!

[ March 10, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[oilyriser]

Is that really the R version of the 0w30?

such as
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000232#000000
or this
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000185#000000

 

[427Z06]

John, thanks for the nice comprehensive report. I'll have another early batch M1R report in another month or two from a '02 Honda V6 that's apparently a bearing Ho'.

Wish you the best of luck in your present situation. I empathize with ya', since my job moved to China, I'm somewhat in the same boat you are.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Moderator please correct my post. Insolubles should be .5! Thanks!!

 

[JohnBrowning]

OK I searched "Camry" in UOA and the 03 with the 2.4 2AZ-FE engine most seemed to show low calcium,boron,and moly. It has me woundering if additive uptake is substatial for this engine!! It just has my interest peaked!!! I am confident that the BITOG member that sold me the oil sold me good product! I can not imagine anyone on this site would try to dube some one seeing how we all do UOA! It just has me woundering if the gear drive for the ballance shafts or the shimless bucket set up or the VVTi is eating up a lot of AW/EP aditives. The calcium is what really has me woundering. Calcium should not plate up like moly,zink and boron? We have seen cases of AW/EP uptake before on engines but I do not remember calcium ever being effected!

No other additives other then LC were ever added to the crank case.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I asked Blackstone to double check my sample to make sure they did not mix it up!

 

[TooSlick]

JB,

I have seen a number of examples of where I suspect the LC was causing the additive levels to test out lower than normal. I'd leave it out the next time and see if the concentrations don't improve. I have no explanation why this might be happening, but I've seen it enough to make me wonder. Perhaps Terry can shed some light on this???

I'd also cut back on the fuel additives and just use a very low, maintenance dose of 1-2 ounces/tank. This works much better than a full bottle every 3000-5000 miles. I use 1-2 ounces of Amsoil "PI" per tank and you can use the excellent Redline SL-1 the same way.

Hope things work out with regards to the job situation. I've been there myself ....

TS

 

[Big John]

I'm not an additive type guy and I wonder if all that stuff was really necessary? Should'nt an oil holds it's own??? I realize the extremely severe conditions this oil was subject too,but can we really say with any great degree of certainty that M1R0w30 is a abuseable oil???

p.s. Best of wishes JB for a healthy and prosperous year....

 

[JohnBrowning]

BigJohn, The only additive added to the oil was 4 onces of lube control at the initial fill and 1 onces per 1000 miles! The other additives were added to the fuel as injector cleaner.


Tooslick, I normaly do not use that much fuel additive! I wanted to see if I could cause a steep increase in wear (mostly lead) from adding fuel additives.I purposefuly picked products that had been linked to increased lead. I also purposefuly did not allow the engine much time before driveing. I was basicly trying to repliate a worse case UOA! I figured with the low HTHS M1R, the start it and drive, the fuel additives, sub zero driveing etc.... I would have had a much worse UOA! Do not get me wrong their is plenty of room for improvment on this UOA and I realise that!! The lube control was just to try to control insolubles I knew that with it being winter and my drastic change in driveing cycles that insolubles were going to be a huge issue. I really tried to push this oil hard chemicaly and physicaly!!!

I am currently not running LC because I am useing Molakules SX-UP and Castrol Syntec 50/50 mix of GC 0W30 and 10W40. I already have my winter oil for next winter on hand so it should make for an interseting comparision. I am useing 2 quarts of M1 0W40 and 2 quarts of TSUV 5W40 with 4 onces of SX-UP. So we will see what we see. Basicly I have been buying what ever I found on clearance!

In the process I have proven a few thing to myself that I would not have readily accepted.

1) A low HTHS of 2.9 can provide good protection in this engine!
2) Fuel additives really do not influence wear in this engine.
3) Insolubles for this engine,oci, and driveing cycle are a very real issue!

My spring,summer UOA should be markedly different. My wife now drives it 22 miles a day. Temp's are warming up. I will probably be back driveing it further real soon. I am considering takeing a job that would pay me less then what I make on unemployment just to get back to work. It is hard just sitting around not working!! I was not raised that way!! I am going to go back to my 3-6 onces of Lucas UCL per fuel up.

P.S. When I am working again and can afford to pay full price for oil I am considering trying M1R again with LC to see if this happens again! The next time though I am considering a VOA so I know exactly what is going into the engine and can compare the UOA to!! I suspect that the added solvency of LC might increase the additives propensity to plate up but this is just a S.W.A.G!

[ March 11, 2005, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

Ryan Stark at BlackStone just emailed me. He said they will re-run the sample and that I should have my results by monday!

 

[LubeOiler]

Insolubles for this engine,oci, and driveing cycle are a very real issue! The 03 with the 2.4 2AZ-FE engine most seemed to show low calcium,boron,and moly. It has me woundering if additive uptake is substatial for this engine!! It just has my interest peaked!! John these two statements pertain to your sample with M1R. Does that mean you wre unhappy with the oil report or the oil used.To compare our 2 cars both 03 Camry same engine : ALUMINUM 3
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 8
COPPER 1
LEAD 22
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 181
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 2
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 91
SILICON 19
SODIUM 5
CALCIUM 2855
MAGNESIUM 33
PHOSPHORUS 930
ZINC 1099
BARIUM 0
SUS
VISCOSITY
@ 210 ºF 59.1
FLASHPOINT 395
IN ºF
FUEL
% 0.5
ANTIFREEZE 0
WATER 0
INSOLUBLES 0.4

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well I am happy with it but I am sure that I can get much better results with a different oil and driveing style.

BL re-ran the sample and got esentialy the same results. My insolubles,silicon and tin were higher then I would like for this low milage.It was a good UOA but I like to strive for continued improvment. I have preety high standards though so I might not be interaly practical with my expectations!

 

[427Z06]

I believe the seemingly low additive levels here were due to BL equipment calibration issue, not additive uptake. Do a search, it was discussed shortly after this UOA.

 

[427Z06]

JB, your wear metal results look great to me, but I won't believe those additive levels. So much so that I now send identical samples to other labs to check results.

 

[LubeOiler]

Useing other labs sounds like a great idea. With all the TLC and good products we can expect good results.How's Butler do they do a different type of testing to get the results.

 

[427Z06]

Butler (site sponsors) are on my A-list.