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#2412030 - 10/21/11 11:49 AM Sea Foam or Engine Flush
bigblumer Offline


Registered: 09/21/11
Posts: 161
Loc: Mn
I have an oil change coming up on the KIA in about 500 miles or so, maybe sooner if the forecast turns cold. The KIA just rolled over 100k this summer, and so far, has been treating us really well.

I was thinking of running some Sea Foam or an engine flush before this next oil change. A friend has an 07 Hyundai Sonata that is essentially the same as our Kia in every way. She rolled over 100k last year. The lady is pretty "By-the-book" and has her oil changed evey 7.5k, which is what it states in the manual. Just recently she had an issue with the computer giving her an error code P0011-A, which points to the Oil Control Valve on the CVVT. She took it to the dealer, who said the sensor needed to be replaced, at great cost.

Worried that the same might happen to me, I checked out the internet to see if anybody else had the same issue. As it turns out, its not an uncommon code. Apparantly, there is a screen infront of the sensor that can get clogged with debris, and that will throw the code. I was thinking a little Sea Foam for a couple hundred miles, or a flush on on oil change day wouldn't hurt.

From what I can tell, the engine is fairly clean. At 5k, the oil is cleaner than the oil in my old Sable was at 1k. I change the oil every 5k with VWB, Next-gen, or PYB, and a NapaGold or PureOne filter. I got the car used at 60k, and I don't know the history before I got it.

What do you guys think?
_________________________
07 Kia Optima 2.4l
Napa Synthetic 5w-20 and Napa Gold filter.

12 Toyota Sienna XLE 3.5V6
TGMO 0w-20 and OEM Filter

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#2412052 - 10/21/11 12:12 PM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 8365
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Absolutely not! - that would clog the screen even faster. I would remove the screen to clean it. Same issue and problem on Toyota 1NZ and 2AZ engines. If it doesnt react like it has a low pressure turbo on it - the screen may be clogged. Your oil change is near conservative whereas hers was "pushing" it.
_________________________
2012 Honda Fit Sport 5MT, OC#5 30kmi- PP 5W20SN+Honda PLM A02 Filter
2014 Forester 5MT 5Door, OC#0 50mi-FACTORY 0W20(?)+TokyoRoki 160 Filter

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#2412060 - 10/21/11 12:21 PM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
Winston Offline


Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1904
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Isnt the CVVT the Transmission? So flushing the engine will not help with that problem.

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#2412062 - 10/21/11 12:25 PM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: Winston]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25675
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Winston
Isnt the CVVT the Transmission? So flushing the engine will not help with that problem.


CVVT = Continuous Variable Valve Timing
CVT = Constant Velocity Transmission/Transaxle

CVT != CVVT
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#2412071 - 10/21/11 12:32 PM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: OVERKILL]
SuperDave456 Offline


Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 2240
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Yeah, I'm not so sure about this one myself.

My first thought was to start out with a pint of MMO for 500 miles before the OCI. Then go with a heavier 1 quart dosage the last 500 miles of the next OCI.

But there is a valid concern for that just clogging things up if there is a bunch of stuff that will come loose.
But it all depends on where the sensor and screen are.

If you are concerned I would just keep it up with the short OCI's. I don't think you have anything to worry about due to you staying on top of the fluids. Anything 3,000-4,000 miles these days is considered very short, 5-6,000 miles is normal, 7-9,000 miles is really starting to push it. And anything greater than 9,000 miles you better have a full synthetic and know what you are doing.

At least the short OCI is where I would start, and in the meantime keep doing research on where in the oil stream this sensor and screen are located.

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#2412098 - 10/21/11 01:09 PM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
kr_bitog Offline


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 728
Loc: South East Asia
Originally Posted By: bigblumer
I have an oil change coming up on the KIA in about 500 miles or so, maybe sooner if the forecast turns cold. The KIA just rolled over 100k this summer, and so far, has been treating us really well.

I was thinking of running some Sea Foam or an engine flush before this next oil change. A friend has an 07 Hyundai Sonata that is essentially the same as our Kia in every way. She rolled over 100k last year. The lady is pretty "By-the-book" and has her oil changed evey 7.5k, which is what it states in the manual. Just recently she had an issue with the computer giving her an error code P0011-A, which points to the Oil Control Valve on the CVVT. She took it to the dealer, who said the sensor needed to be replaced, at great cost.

Worried that the same might happen to me, I checked out the internet to see if anybody else had the same issue. As it turns out, its not an uncommon code. Apparantly, there is a screen infront of the sensor that can get clogged with debris, and that will throw the code. I was thinking a little Sea Foam for a couple hundred miles, or a flush on on oil change day wouldn't hurt.

From what I can tell, the engine is fairly clean. At 5k, the oil is cleaner than the oil in my old Sable was at 1k. I change the oil every 5k with VWB, Next-gen, or PYB, and a NapaGold or PureOne filter. I got the car used at 60k, and I don't know the history before I got it.

What do you guys think?


Actually I was thinking at the same line too for one of my Toyota, but I was considering whether I will use M1 HM or put MMO inside. I find the engine sometimes stumbled during first few minutes of driving, even though the car pretty much use synthetic with 5-10K OCI during their life.

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#2415496 - 10/25/11 06:54 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
99SC2 Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 20
Loc: Chicago
Well, I have a 96 Saturn SC2 that had terrible lifter clacking after I changed the oil. My guess is that the previous owner put stuff in the oil to hide the noise rather than doing anything to clean them. Unfortunately, it also seems to have too much slack in the timing chain, so that will need replacement.

Anyway, the lifters sell for around $56 each from GM, which is highway robbery, and from what I hear, you don't want to put new ones in if you don't absolutely have to because the existing ones have worked themselves into mating with the cam over time.

So over the past month or so, I've put 2 cans of SeaFoam into the oil, and changed it twice after it got dirty. Initially I had put in Mobil 1 with an oversized Pureone filter, but the 2nd change I just used regular oil and an oversized Motorcraft filter. I also ran thru an engine flush before the last change, and added 1/2 of a 3rd can of Seafoam, and then the other 1/2 a few days later after the oil level dropped again. It seems to me that the Seafoam is evaporating off after a few days, just based on the oil level drop. Anyway, in a few weeks, I'll have it in the shop to get the timing chain replaced, and will be able to compare the looks of the exposed valvetrain, cams and sprockets, etc, to what they were when I took the cover off a few weeks ago, to tell if the Seafoam and engine flush actually cleaned up the sludge and varnish or not.

I am pretty disappointed at the number of pages of arguments I have read as to whether these products work or don't, and literally I've found none where anyone actually did a before and after inspection of anything under the cam covers, even.

The clacking noise is greatly reduced, now, and is only noticeable from a completely cold start for the first 2 minutes, and I'm probably going to return the 16 lifters I bought. Hopefully I'll remember to come back here and post an update.

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#2421991 - 11/01/11 02:23 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
kr_bitog Offline


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 728
Loc: South East Asia
Finally I put 6 oz MMO inside the current M1 5w-30 SM to clean up the engine. After 200 miles, the engine noticeably quieter and the stumbling during cold almost disappear. However, I drained the oil after 300 miles with MMO, and try the M1 HM 10w-30. Interestingly the engine becomes very quiet, I believe this one of the quietest I ever use M1, even though it probably the same when I just change with PP 5w-30 or Amsoil before. Just cross my finger see how long the M1 HM will last.

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#2422158 - 11/01/11 09:59 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: kr_bitog]
99SC2 Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 20
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Finally I put 6 oz MMO inside the current M1 5w-30 SM to clean up the engine. After 200 miles, the engine noticeably quieter and the stumbling during cold almost disappear. However, I drained the oil after 300 miles with MMO, and try the M1 HM 10w-30. Interestingly the engine becomes very quiet, I believe this one of the quietest I ever use M1, even though it probably the same when I just change with PP 5w-30 or Amsoil before. Just cross my finger see how long the M1 HM will last.


Does anyone know of a completely unbiased report with pictures showing engine parts (like the under the cam cover view if sprockets and chains and cams, for example) both before and after using MMO in the oil?

My worry with the oil additives is that putting them in might dull the noise to be no longer obvious, but not actually clean out the parts. My thought is that if you were to use the additive to clean out the gunk/varnish/sludge or whatever you want to call it, then when you replace it with the correct oil, the noise should remain stopped, at least until it gunks up again.

I did return the new lifters, btw, but won't be doing the timing chain anytime soon it looks, because my mechanic is in the hospital in the ICU.


Edited by 99SC2 (11/01/11 10:02 AM)

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#2423037 - 11/02/11 08:58 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
kr_bitog Offline


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 728
Loc: South East Asia
IMO, the MMO is gentle cleaner,so it will not show dramatic change even on the photo, but that is exactly not the intention. I believe the cleaning of small oil circuit is the part MMO is good at.
In my experience, yes, the noise is gone after MMO treatment, until a few OCI that may come back. The engine is also peppier and accelerate better.

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#2425402 - 11/04/11 08:44 PM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
mitmaks Offline


Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 13
Loc: WA
I would think that running engine flush will dry out seals and possibly you'll have oil leaks. I know I ran a bottle of engine flush on our old Lexus with ~170K and now it appears to have rear main seal leak. I just change oil every 3K miles and not worry about "engine flush"
You don't need it if you change oil regularly and use good quality filter.

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#2425624 - 11/05/11 04:40 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: kr_bitog]
99SC2 Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 20
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Finally I put 6 oz MMO inside the current M1 5w-30 SM to clean up the engine. After 200 miles, the engine noticeably quieter and the stumbling during cold almost disappear. However, I drained the oil after 300 miles with MMO, and try the M1 HM 10w-30. Interestingly the engine becomes very quiet, I believe this one of the quietest I ever use M1, even though it probably the same when I just change with PP 5w-30 or Amsoil before. Just cross my finger see how long the M1 HM will last.


According to the MMO bottle, 32 oz would be the amount to add to the oil for a 5 qt change, not 6 oz. The directions say to replace 20% of your oil with MMO. Its on the inside flap of the label on the bottle. It goes on to say for optimal performance to repeat at each oil change. It makes no mention of needing to drain it early.

I don't understand why you didn't follow the directions.

I did a bit of a test with the badly crudded timing cover I bought. I tried a number of different products that are supposed to clean out the crud. I put a nickel or quarter sized drop of each product on the cover in areas that looked to be similarly crudded, and let it set about 20 min and then wiped it off. I also tried using a toothbrush on the areas. The differences between this and real world were that the fluids were room temp, and not being sprayed or flowing under pressure.

The MMO did the best job I have to admit, followed by Rislone Engine Treatment and Seafoam. CD2 Oil Detergent and ATF didn't do much at all to loosen any crud. None of them loosened off pieces of crud. It either dissolved and made the liquid a muddy color or didn't.

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#2425629 - 11/05/11 05:20 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: kr_bitog]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 20757
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Finally I put 6 oz MMO inside the current M1 5w-30 SM to clean up the engine. After 200 miles, the engine noticeably quieter and the stumbling during cold almost disappear. However, I drained the oil after 300 miles with MMO, and try the M1 HM 10w-30. Interestingly the engine becomes very quiet, I believe this one of the quietest I ever use M1, even though it probably the same when I just change with PP 5w-30 or Amsoil before. Just cross my finger see how long the M1 HM will last.


Next time try a pint for the last 1000 miles of the OCI I think you'll have even better results than you did with the 6 ounces. JMO
_________________________
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#2425683 - 11/05/11 07:49 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14273
Loc: Sunny Florida
For years I have added a full quart of MMO to the oil a day or two before an oil change. Never any issues in many different cars and trucks.

It's a very safe product to use.
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J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
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#2427605 - 11/07/11 11:53 AM Re: Sea Foam or Engine Flush [Re: bigblumer]
honeyfly911 Offline


Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 1
Loc: Washington
try synthetic oil! we tried Mobil 1! you could tell it clean the engine. if I had to do it all over again I would of used Pennzoil.
We had 114,000 miles and our van is all most 11 years old.
we don't burn oil or have any leaks. We used synthetic oil for
3 months then switch to high mileage oil.


Edited by honeyfly911 (11/07/11 11:55 AM)

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