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#2386868 - 09/24/11 07:59 PM M1 afe vs toyota 0w20
swirlparanoid Offline


Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 191
Loc: in
I seem to be stuck between these 2 oils partly due to availability. i live in Indianapolis so there mayyy be 1-4 days where it gets below 0F, during the summer high 90's is not uncommon. Will the extra moly in the Toyota oil provide any extra protection the M1 cant? Would the difference in the cold thickness really make any difference at these temps?

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#2386876 - 09/24/11 08:11 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 11559
Loc: Illinois
No and No. However I have never used Toyota oil, but M1 0-20 is out standing in both Duratechs even in the very hot temps we had this last summer. I now have 5K on this OC in the Fusion and will be making a trip to Florida in two weeks on this OC. 10K OCIs is a snap with this oil.


Edited by tig1 (09/24/11 08:20 PM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 186,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
2007 Ford Focus 158,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#2386878 - 09/24/11 08:11 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
Lead Shoes Offline


Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 2433
Loc: Mn
Moly is just another anti-wear additive like boron, zinc, phosphorus, and ZZDP. If it has lower Moly, it usually has a higher level of the other anti wear additives.

The 0w vs 5w or 10w only helps with cold temp starting and lower wear on the engine initially, I would go with m1 0w20 over the Toyota oil if I had to choose between the two.
_________________________
1992 BMW 325i 183k
Castrol 0w40/Mahle


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#2386896 - 09/24/11 08:30 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
Mark_Walk Offline


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 461
Loc: Danville, KY
I like the M1 because it is thicker and is more readily available.
_________________________
2011 BMW328xi (M1 0w40) 105,000mi
2010 Mazda6iTP (MC 5w20) 136,000mi
2007 VolvoXC70 (M1 0w40) 139,000mi
2002 TrailBlazerEXT (PYB 5w30) 154,000mi

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#2386901 - 09/24/11 08:32 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10103
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
The M1 oil has a lower MRV @ -40 degrees but the Toyota oil is about 35% lighter at 32F. I don't know a what point the M1 0W-20 becomes lighter than the Toyota oil but I'm sure it's well below below 0F. And since you're only seeing 1-4 days below 0F a year, the Toyota 0W-20 is clearly the better winter oil choice for your climate.

Of course the race oil level of moly that the Toyota oil contains is there to maximize fuel economy, the fact that it does it by reducing friction during boundary lubrication is a bonus. So yes in that sense it provides a extra level of protection.
On the other hand the M1 oil has a higher HTHSV but since the Toyota oil is spec'd for your car, you don't likely need the higher HTHS viscosity.

So on balance I think the Toyota Brand 0W-20 is the preferred choice for year round use.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2386902 - 09/24/11 08:33 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: Mark_Walk]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 11559
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Mark_Walk
I like the M1 because it is thicker and is more readily available.


Thicker, as in the technical since?
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 186,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
2007 Ford Focus 158,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#2386914 - 09/24/11 08:49 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
Mark_Walk Offline


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 461
Loc: Danville, KY
As in greater viscosity.
_________________________
2011 BMW328xi (M1 0w40) 105,000mi
2010 Mazda6iTP (MC 5w20) 136,000mi
2007 VolvoXC70 (M1 0w40) 139,000mi
2002 TrailBlazerEXT (PYB 5w30) 154,000mi

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#2386917 - 09/24/11 08:51 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: CATERHAM]
swirlparanoid Offline


Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 191
Loc: in
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The M1 oil has a lower MRV @ -40 degrees but the Toyota oil is about 35% lighter at 32F. I don't know a what point the M1 0W-20 becomes lighter than the Toyota oil but I'm sure it's well below below 0F. And since you're only seeing 1-4 days below 0F a year, the Toyota 0W-20 is clearly the better winter oil choice for your climate.

Of course the race oil level of moly that the Toyota oil contains is there to maximize fuel economy, the fact that it does it by reducing friction during boundary lubrication is a bonus. So yes in that sense it provides a extra level of protection.
On the other hand the M1 oil has a higher HTHSV but since the Toyota oil is spec'd for your car, you don't likely need the higher HTHS viscosity.

So on balance I think the Toyota Brand 0W-20 is the preferred choice for year round use.
the fuel economy thing was another reason i was debating using it, probably wouldn't be any noticeable difference in mpg between the two though right?


Edited by swirlparanoid (09/24/11 08:52 PM)

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#2386936 - 09/24/11 09:01 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: Lead Shoes]
river_rat Offline


Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3402
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Moly is just another anti-wear additive like boron...

I keep reading that on this site, but can't find any evidence that it is an anti-wear additive. Do you have a link to any info on this?

I know moly is, and my vote goes to the Toyota 0W-20 for now. Although I'm still collecting UOA data for my application.

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#2386944 - 09/24/11 09:07 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: tig1]
swirlparanoid Offline


Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 191
Loc: in
Originally Posted By: tig1
No and No. However I have never used Toyota oil, but M1 0-20 is out standing in both Duratechs even in the very hot temps we had this last summer. I now have 5K on this OC in the Fusion and will be making a trip to Florida in two weeks on this OC. 10K OCIs is a snap with this oil.
part of the reason i was debating between the two was from reading your posts about your luck with it. i like how you just hop in a convo where people may be bad mouthing m1 and you say my engines have made it 400k no problems... always thought that was a good way to look at it

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#2386945 - 09/24/11 09:08 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: river_rat]
Lead Shoes Offline


Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 2433
Loc: Mn
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Moly is just another anti-wear additive like boron...

I keep reading that on this site, but can't find any evidence that it is an anti-wear additive. Do you have a link to any info on this?

I know moly is, and my vote goes to the Toyota 0W-20 for now. Although I'm still collecting UOA data for my application.



Here is an sentence from http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html

It's worth noting again the differences between anti-wear additives and extreme pressure additives: Anti-wear such as zinc and boron layer on the metal surfaces and attempt to keep the metals apart, finding applications in sliding actions like pistons and bearings. Extreme pressure additives such as sulphur phosphorus react to the metal surface making it harder and less subject to wear, such as on gears and cam lobes.
_________________________
1992 BMW 325i 183k
Castrol 0w40/Mahle


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#2386952 - 09/24/11 09:12 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10103
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
The moly supplier, Adeka Sakura-Lube, that EOM uses in the Toyota Brand oil that they formulate, claims a 1.7% fuel economy savings due to the moly additive alone.
The much higher VI and lower HTHSV of the Toyota oil has got to worth another 2% as well. So that's 4% right there and 4% is a lot!

Having said that, if you can measure a 4% fuel economy improvement; that's 1.5 mpg on a car that averages 40 mpg, you're a better man than me.
But just knowing that the Toyota oil is more fuel efficient, whether you can notice it or not, is another reason to use the oil.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2386960 - 09/24/11 09:21 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
Mark_Walk Offline


Registered: 09/19/11
Posts: 461
Loc: Danville, KY
Sounds like from his orig. post he is more concerned with protection than fuel economy.
_________________________
2011 BMW328xi (M1 0w40) 105,000mi
2010 Mazda6iTP (MC 5w20) 136,000mi
2007 VolvoXC70 (M1 0w40) 139,000mi
2002 TrailBlazerEXT (PYB 5w30) 154,000mi

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#2386968 - 09/24/11 09:31 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: swirlparanoid]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
Let me make this a little more simple for you...flip a coin or get the more cost effective oil. They are both very good. Don't sweat the small stuff.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


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#2386978 - 09/24/11 09:39 PM Re: M1 afe vs toyota 0w20 [Re: Lead Shoes]
river_rat Offline


Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3402
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Here is an sentence from http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html

Thank you.

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