Mobil 1 0w-20 - 02 Honda Civic Si K20A3, 10k miles
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There are several scenarios that are not ruled out on the evidence that appears in Surprise's chart. One scenario consistent with this evidence: it's just normal wear, unchanged from before, but the numbers are a little higher since he went ~2,500 miles further on the last draw than he did before. Frankly, I hope it's that, and nothing more.
Another scenario that is consistent with the evidence in the chart (i.e. can't be ruled out) is that there is more wear going on, for whatever reason. Although relatively small, there is an indication of increased wear in two different areas. Lead, with respect to the bearings, and chromium with respect to the piston rings. In addition, I have observed a strange "non-linearity" of wear numbers, so I'm not willing to just write the small increases off to the increased mileage. On the other hand, neither aluminum nor iron seem to be following this pattern, so that would tend to weigh against this possibility, but you still can't rule it out.
So all I'm saying is that I think this bears further observation before any firm conclusions are drawn, about this one particular engine. I am not recommending a change in oil use, or condemning 20 wts broadly. If it were my engine, I'd watch this for a few more UOA before I made a final decision about whether to stay with a 20 on this car, or go back to a 30.
Nice reports.
Would you happen to have the part number for the "Toyo-Rki" filters your using?
Available from Honda dealers I hope.
[ January 31, 2005, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Cicero ]
Would you happen to have the part number for the "Toyo-Rki" filters your using?
Available from Honda dealers I hope.
[ January 31, 2005, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Cicero ]
I do not see where the 0W20 did any better then the M1 5W30? I do not see the benifit? Well so far so good on the 20Wt.!
Honda part number 15400-PLC-004
Toyo-Roki made, although looks like filtech
Surprise,
Very passionate thread here. I, IMHO, personally think you have a very solid 10k mile UOA, here. Skippin' through everyone's micro analysis, I would suggest that if you didn't post the previous 5 UOA's along side of the last one, folks on here would probably say that your UOA is solid, if not outright outstanding. All wear metals were in the single digits, Si is in single digits, insoluables at 0.3, and TBN is nearly a 5 using BS's "lower" TBN scale after 10k miles w/ 50% city driving in warm California climate that's pushed hard at times w/ 100 deg heat... that's just flatout excellent results compared to most 5k and 7.5k mile UOA on this forum, on a 20w oil nonetheless!
Surprise... you did well, man...very well!
Very passionate thread here. I, IMHO, personally think you have a very solid 10k mile UOA, here. Skippin' through everyone's micro analysis, I would suggest that if you didn't post the previous 5 UOA's along side of the last one, folks on here would probably say that your UOA is solid, if not outright outstanding. All wear metals were in the single digits, Si is in single digits, insoluables at 0.3, and TBN is nearly a 5 using BS's "lower" TBN scale after 10k miles w/ 50% city driving in warm California climate that's pushed hard at times w/ 100 deg heat... that's just flatout excellent results compared to most 5k and 7.5k mile UOA on this forum, on a 20w oil nonetheless!
Surprise... you did well, man...very well!
Thanks for the help. Local Honda did have them.
However, the parts lady said they weren't for my car and when I ask why not she said they have different threads. I said I did't think that was true. She "got help" and the next parts department person told me it wasn't a good idea to use this on my '04 Accord V6. When pressed on why not, I was told something about the bypass valve pressure being different (higher?) and designed for the S2000's performance. It wouldn't function right on my engine. I really didn't know what to say then. I don't know enough to know if he was correct or not. From what I now see here on BITOG, people use them all the time. Is there something to what they were saying? If I use the 15400-PLC-004 number at online parts sites they always show the same Denso filter number that also replces the OEM filtec xxxxxx-A01's. ???
Thanks for the help. Local Honda did have them.
However, the parts lady said they weren't for my car and when I ask why not she said they have different threads. I said I did't think that was true. She "got help" and the next parts department person told me it wasn't a good idea to use this on my '04 Accord V6. When pressed on why not, I was told something about the bypass valve pressure being different (higher?) and designed for the S2000's performance. It wouldn't function right on my engine. I really didn't know what to say then. I don't know enough to know if he was correct or not. From what I now see here on BITOG, people use them all the time. Is there something to what they were saying? If I use the 15400-PLC-004 number at online parts sites they always show the same Denso filter number that also replces the OEM filtec xxxxxx-A01's. ???
Without the spec sheets in front of me I can't help too much. But I do know that the 15400-PLX-004 is the honda part number for the s2000 filter. The plc filter seems to work fine for me.quote:
Originally posted by Cicero:
Thanks for the help. Local Honda did have them.
However, the parts lady said they weren't for my car and when I ask why not she said they have different threads. I said I did't think that was true. She "got help" and the next parts department person told me it wasn't a good idea to use this on my '04 Accord V6. When pressed on why not, I was told something about the bypass valve pressure being different (higher?) and designed for the S2000's performance. It wouldn't function right on my engine. I really didn't know what to say then. I don't know enough to know if he was correct or not. From what I now see here on BITOG, people use them all the time. Is there something to what they were saying? If I use the 15400-PLC-004 number at online parts sites they always show the same Denso filter number that also replces the OEM filtec xxxxxx-A01's. ???
(Triple flame suit on.) Debating the merits of slightly thinner vs. slightly thicker in a particular engine with relatively low wear metals is pointless, IMHO. Like measuring anything else near the noise floor, it's hard to come to any meaningful conclusions. Unfortunately, I don't think Surprise would entertain the idea of again running the Chevron 10w30, or better yet M1 0w40, to prove my point.
The S2000 filter Honda had was #15400-PCX-004. Toyo Roki, not PLM or PLC. What happens to these filters that they need to change numbers? Are the older ones inferior and they needed to be tweeked? Or is it a cheaper replacement design?
The S2000 filter Honda had was #15400-PCX-004. Toyo Roki, not PLM or PLC. What happens to these filters that they need to change numbers? Are the older ones inferior and they needed to be tweeked? Or is it a cheaper replacement design?
Toyo-Roki made filters:
Honda S2000 filter: 15400-PCX-004
Almost all other Honda: 15400-PLC-004
Different application, different requirements, different filter, different part number.
427Z06,
I believe that almost any oil, of almost any weight would work well in the K series engine. That is why I have no problem in sticking with the oil that theoretically will yield me more power and less fuel consumption.
Honda S2000 filter: 15400-PCX-004
Almost all other Honda: 15400-PLC-004
Different application, different requirements, different filter, different part number.
427Z06,
I believe that almost any oil, of almost any weight would work well in the K series engine. That is why I have no problem in sticking with the oil that theoretically will yield me more power and less fuel consumption.
The S2000 filter was redesigned to allow more flow I believe, it was also redesigned to match the higher pressures of the engine.
Surprise, et.al.,
I see, the 15400-PCX-004 is spec'd for the S2000 and I guess is not "right" for my Accord but Toyo Roki filter 15400-PLC-004 would be. Sadly, only the xxx-A01 Filtech is available locally. Denso A6000-116741 is all I see for ANY of the above numbers as cross reference, and that makes me think it is either not right for the S2000 or my Accord V6....or is so generic that it would not be better then the xxx-A01 Filtech I can get now. I'm just trying to find the best filter for my car and thought the Toyo Roki were the best. Thanks to all.
I see, the 15400-PCX-004 is spec'd for the S2000 and I guess is not "right" for my Accord but Toyo Roki filter 15400-PLC-004 would be. Sadly, only the xxx-A01 Filtech is available locally. Denso A6000-116741 is all I see for ANY of the above numbers as cross reference, and that makes me think it is either not right for the S2000 or my Accord V6....or is so generic that it would not be better then the xxx-A01 Filtech I can get now. I'm just trying to find the best filter for my car and thought the Toyo Roki were the best. Thanks to all.
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