1985 Volvo 245 Ti 10K miles Amsoil AME 15W-40

[Pablo]

Car has 247000 miles. 2.1 liter water cooled, oil bearing, intercooled turbo with 12 psi. K-jet mechanical fuel injection with a few slight mods. Engine has never been open.

Oil is AME 15W-40 Synthetic HD Diesel oil. About a qt of make up oil over 10K. Sump is 6 qts.

I drove hard this OCI. I pulled a trailer and used lots of boost. I blew a radiator during this OCI. I used lots of FP and tested regular fuel and had some super BAD knocking sessions….the car is my commuter beater, dump run, campmobile. Sits out year ‘round.

The oil is well over 6 months old. Amsoil recommends 6 months max for gas turbos. I went near 10 months. Amsoil also recommends 3X the mfr’s OCI, and I was about dead nuts on that.

This seems like a strange analysis to me. This car has never had Cu or Na over 10 ppm, yet Cu a 22 and Na at 18 seems weird. OTOH, this is the first OCI that I didn’t change the oil filters. I have a generic dual remote and ran two Motorcraft FL-1A’s. The car has an oil cooler, and this is the first analysis after a thorough AutoRx cleaning.

I use an Amsoil foam filter, I was thinking about dumping it. 5 ppm Si? 3 ppm Al and Fe at 6 ppm say: Keep it! And the silly thing I haven’t cleaned the air filter for well over a year. A turbo with an intercooler has miles of area to spring leaks, but I check the hoses and clamps regularly.

The oil thinned a bit (note: did not thicken). Oxidation and Nitration seem nominal, especially for a turbo. TBN at 7.14 seems to be pretty equal to or a bit less than previous OCI’s.

Now I’ve changed to 50/50 mix of same oil and Pennzoil LL 15W-40.

code:

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Fe 6

Cr 0

Pb 10

Cu 22

Sn 0

Al 3

Ni 0

Ag 0

Si 5

B 5

Na 18

Mg 33

Ca 2230

Ba 0

P 906

Zn 1123

Mo 2

Ti 0

K 0

Fuel
Vis (cSt) 12.03

H2O 0

Glycol Neg

TBN 7.14

Oxi 7

Nit 26

---

 

[Gene K]

Pablo I am sure I am going much over my head but wouldnt the lead and copper numbers be from the beating the bearings took from the detonation? I see a little aluminum (Less than I would expect though) that could be from detonation pitting in the tops of the pistons. Would aluminum pitting release sodium?

I am just guessing but it seems to me the detonation could have caused most of the unusual readings?

Gene

[ July 08, 2004, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]

 

[ryansride2017]

Just a pet peeve:

Why do you have to select his entire post? I can understand a few sentences if you want to discuss a point he made. We know what your referring to otherwise you wouldn't have replied in this thread.



[ July 08, 2004, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]

 

[Last_Z]

Dang P, that's a very good report. It's a shame lead and copper are higher than Al and Fe, since it's almost always the other way around. Yor silicon is very low for 10k miles. I'm guessing the bearing wear is from the shock produced by the BAD detonation you describe. The oil did thin out quite a bit, but at 12cSt is was still thick enough for towing.
I think this is a very outstanding report, regarless of bearing wear!

 

[Pablo]

I suspect you are right about the knocking creating a higher than normal Cu, and a bit high Pb. But I would expect at least some Sn, and tin is ZERO!

I suppose piston tops may yield some Na. I was thinking it was from the FP.

So my thinking was this as far as Cu and Pb:

1) 10 ppm Pb is not THAT bad at 10K, even if it was 20 ppm I would not be in panic mode.
2) 22 ppm Cu is not that bad, and I'm sure some did come from the oil cooler.
3) P seems low. I wish I had a VOA on this batch. Maybe some post clean-up uptake.
4) I do think the Pb and Cu were effected by:
a) post AutoRx cleaning
b) a certain amount of turbo related bottom end lugging
c) cold winter starts with 15W-40
d) low octane pinging, knocking from nasty a$$ regular gas, with and without FP.

 

[Last_Z]

P,
Your lead and copper is indeed very low, especially for 10k miles. It's just that compared to aluminum and iron, it "seems" a bit abnormal!

 

[Eiron]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
... The oil thinned a bit (note: did not thicken). ...

---

Why this comment? (I'm guessing 'cuz of Brian's test?) When you look at your previous Amsoil Series 2000 20W-50 UOA in this engine, the oil thinned to 11.8cSt in 10.5k miles. This is simply another testament to how hard turbos are on oil, & how erroneous it is to slam any oil for thinning in a turbo engine. (To address any fuel dilution concerns, read this response from MolaKule.)

I think this proves that mid-run filter changes aren't necessary for your dual filter setup. Cold-start temps should be a non-issue with this oil, since you've done the same with S2k 20W-50. TBN is also not a concern; you've still got tons left over here.

Why did you decide to mix with Pennzoil this OCI? How much do you expect it to affect cold-start-ability? Will you change oil filters this time around? What will you top-up with?

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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Why did you decide to mix with Pennzoil this OCI? How much do you expect it to affect cold-start-ability? Will you change oil filters this time around? What will you top-up with?

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The Pennz thing is an experiment, pure and simple. Cost savings? Maybe. Less wear? Who knows...? Moly bug? Probably.
I am worried about the coldest mornings, but I haven't the gumption to pay for a cold pumpability test

I may change filters at 5K or just dump and sample.
I have two qts of 50/50 already brewed up for top up.

 

[buster]

Excellent report Pablo. Fe wear is very low. That AME is a great oil.