93 Honda Accord, 6,900 K, , Castrol GTX 5W-30

[T-Stick]

Bosch oil filter, 115,000 miles on car

UNIT AVERAGES / UNIVERSAL AVERAGES

ALUMINUM 3 4
CHROMIUM 0 1
IRON 6 10
COPPER 2 4
LEAD 5 5
TIN 1 0
MOLYBDENUM 46 38
NICKEL 0 0
MANGANESE 0 0
SILVER 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0
POTASSIUM 0 1
BORON 0 71
SILICON 9 9
SODIUM 3 8
CALCIUM 2029 2189
MAGNESIUM 4 445
PHOSPHORUS 749 792
ZINC 946 934
BARIUM 0 0

SUS VISC 61.5 56-63
FLASHPOINT 350 >365
FUEL 0.8 ANTIFREEZE 0.0 0
WATER TR INSOLUBLES 0.5
BLACKSTONE COMMENTS:We reported a fairly low TBN for your first sample, in which the GTX oil was run 5,380 miles. You increased the oil use interval to 6,900 miles this time, and the TBN was 0.1, which is virtually non-existent. If you would like to run longer miles than this and would like to have active additive in the oil, you may want to switch to the Syntec. We found a little gas and moisture in this sample, both of
which can have an influence on TBN. The moisture was not engine coolant. Wear read normally and
shows little changed from the first sample. Nice wearing Honda!
-----------------------------------------------

In the name of science I decided to run this car down to what I perceived would be the near death of the TBN in order to see what my wear numbers might be. It seems as though GTX does quite well right up to the end. I ran this same oil in my Tacoma to 7,300 and got a good TBN. Obviously the 4-banger is harder on oil. Most of these miles are short trips on back roads. I wonder if a 10w-30 would hold up better over the long haul? I plan to drop the OCI to 5K, or increase it to 10K with syntec.
What do you think of these results?

 

[sbc350gearhead]

For a TBN of .1.........I think these results are great!!!!

I would back the mileage back down though. I think that it helps give us an idea of the scale that blackstone uses. I would have no problem running an oil down to a tbn of 1 on their scale.

 

[Patman]

It makes me wonder how accurate their TBN method is, considering how good the wear metals are. You'd think that wear would shoot through the roof if the TBN got too low.

You should try out that new Castrol GTX Start Up oil next!

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Stick:

I wonder if a 10w-30 would hold up better over the long haul? I plan to drop the OCI to 5K, or increase it to 10K with syntec.
What do you think of these results?

---

For right now I doubt the 10w-30 would better it .

It's summer and your a Castrol guy " can see why " I'd use the 5w-30 HM till end of summer or 6k and get some small but beneficial cleaning out of the interval to set it up for fall/winter .

Another dragon just slayed by the low cost Castrol

But curious ..... whats in the motor now and how many months were on this oil ?

 

[Pablo]

Blackstone TBN is pointless. Save the way overpriced $10. HOWEVER, solids were increasing......OK OK Bkstn TBN not pointless, it's a scale to compare to ITSELF for THAT OIL. THAT CAR. See what I'm saying here??

As for the wear DAAAYYYYAAAAMMMMM!!!!! Almost makes me want to lose my whole Castrol hatred bias thing......

[ June 04, 2004, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[T-Stick]

It is quite obvious that the TBN is based upon that oil that car...but it also seems as though they are comparing it against a large data bank of similar criteria known as universal averages. What is not subjective is the wear numbers.

BTW I used to be an Amsoil dealer. I am the nephew of Bill Shirk (you might recognize him from Action News) and was indoctrinated with synthetics from my youth. Now I am convinced of a couple things:
1. contemporary dino oil is much better than what we often assume
2. dino oil has really closed the margin of performance between it and synthetics in the last few years
3. the primary benefits of synthetic are extended oil drain intervals and cold weather starting, under normal drain intervals and weather there is little significant performance differences.

 

[Chris]

Love to see someone push a dino oil...do not even view the M-1 UOA at 3-4k anymore, what a waste of time and money.

 

[txmatt]

Thanks for this post. My mom recently bought a very clean '93 Accord Wagon with ~85k on it. I've been giving it the once over (air filter, spark plugs, wiper blades, good wax job, Auto-RX, ATF change 2 quarts at a time, front brake pads, CD player and 4 speakers, ...).

She's in the rinse phase with the Auto-RX now and I've been thinking of going Mobil 1 with 10k mile intervals with an occasional Lube Control addition when I see her. It's cool to see such low wear with Castrol out to 7000 miles.

Matt

 

[slider]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:
It makes me wonder how accurate their TBN method is, considering how good the wear metals are. You'd think that wear would shoot through the roof if the TBN got too low.

---

The low TBN is probably caused by the water begining to up the acid level.

Low TBN does not mean high wear. It does mean that there is limited ability to neutralize acids. The low wear likely not last much longer with a TBN of .1 as the building up of acids will eventually cause corrosion.

Blackstone's TBN is quite accurate and repeatable, but not directly comparable to other labs.

 

[T-Stick]

quote:

---

But curious ..... whats in the motor now and how many months were on this oil ?

---

Right now I changed it to 10w-30 Castrol Syntec blend for the hot summer months. The previous oil was in for around 4-5 months (I am guessing).

 

[TR3-2001SE]

And hear I have been worried about pushing this oil to 6000 miles. Looks like it can take this easily. No thinning at this milage is impressive.
I assume no oil added during this run.

 

[T-Stick]

No oil added...

 

[Bror Jace]

This really is an impressive result ... both for the car as well as the oil.

Any evidence of sludge/varnish build-up inside the motor ... even in the places visible from the filler hole opening?

This would be the only concern I'd have ... maybe the oil has left some wear indicators in the motor as some form of a deposit ... especially with such a low TBN. Might not be able to keep everything in suspension.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Drstressor]

Blackstone's TBN determinations are quite repeatable. However, they are not accurate. They use a different end point for "neutrality" than other labs.

In theory, problems only start when the TBN reaches 0. Oxidation (sludge formation) and wear metal accumulation rapidly accelerates. But we don't know what "0" means for a Blackstone analysis. From the results posted here, including this analysis, it is pretty clear that the Blackstone TBN readings are very conservative.

 

[T-Stick]

I have not seen any sludge build-up where I can peer inside the filler cap. I decided to do this test only after I had completed an auto-rx treatment and rinse phase. I would not have felt comfortable doing this in an already "potentially" dirty engine. I figured a one time test could not hurt that much.

Were I to try any other long or longer OCI it would be with Castrol syntec.