Fram AF #8911 (Civic) new vs old. (pic)

[Sayjac]

The old design on left (duh) with ~30k. It has 29 pleats, made in Canada and cost $12.50 at Wally in 09. The new on the right has 16 pleats and cost ~$8.50 a few days ago and is made in China. Can't really compare price though because I bought it at a Magic Mart store which tend to have lower prices on Fram AF's. The price of the new China made Fram filter now at Wally is the about the same as the old price. Was surpised at the ~$4 difference and that MM had this application.

Observation. While the Canada made filter had more pleats, the media seemed more like a paper/cellulose material. The China made is a thicker and more fuzzy felt like material. Making no judgement about which better/worse, just an observation.

 

[Quest]

you can't compare the pleates to determine it's performance.

Q.

 

[Sayjac]

No judgements on which is better, simply presenting information/data on the observable differences between the two designs.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: Quest
you can't compare the pleates to determine it's performance.

Q.

...he wasn't.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Both OE and aftermarket filter media of LS400 is just like the new Fram filter, thick and fuzzy.

 

[Hokiefyd]

So is the old design a conventional paper pleat, while the new design is that new(er) woven batting material? I tend to like that newer material better, though I haven't seen any performance data out there. But given that most OEMs are going to this material, methinks a natural conclusion/assumption is that it filters at least as well as the conventional paper pleat.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
So is the old design a conventional paper pleat, while the new design is that new(er) woven batting material? I tend to like that newer material better, though I haven't seen any performance data out there. But given that most OEMs are going to this material, methinks a natural conclusion/assumption is that it filters at least as well as the conventional paper pleat.


You would hope at least, would Fram arbitrarily change the media spec like that?

The G5 is like this, the 6 is conventional paper and after about the same mileage the white fuzzy one seemed like it may have been dirtier. Possibly a better media?

 

[JoeWGauss]

I believe that the industry is moving towards that cloth like batting in the right side filter pictured. I would not be surprised if that type of media isn't back specced to older models due to cost efficiency. My guess is that protection is at least as good as the old traditional paper fiber type. Flow is probably better though.

 

[Mr Nice]

I like the filter on the right with the very soft fuzzy media than the one on the left with the hard media.

I bought some $5.00 Pronto brand air filters for my mom's Honda from RockAuto and they look like the filter on the left.

 

[ltslimjim]

^I agree here. I hope to get a replacement with the construction more like the right.

 

[Garak]

The Frams for my G were made in China, but with a media more like the one on the left, basically the traditional paper style media with tighter spacing.

 

[JustinC25]

Toyota OE filters have looked like the one on the right for years and years. Superior triple layer filtration. Coarse, Medium, Fine media. Only recently have aftermarket filter manufacturers started using this material. I like the new material much better than the plain paper.

 

[Towncivilian]

I just replaced the air filter in my girlfriend's 2009 G5 w/ 28k miles and the (presumably OEM) filter looked almost identical to the Fram ExtraGuard C9969 I replaced it with. Both use the "fuzzy" type media. The Fram is made in China.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Both OE and aftermarket filter media of LS400 is just like the new Fram filter, thick and fuzzy.


I remember the OE filter for the 94 Corolla... was thick, fuzzy on the "entrance" side, and a thinner, though a lot finer paper on the exit side... iirc, Toyota claimed a 3-layer filter element back then

 

[wirelessF]

Originally Posted By: JustinC25
Toyota OE filters have looked like the one on the right for years and years. Superior triple layer filtration. Coarse, Medium, Fine media. Only recently have aftermarket filter manufacturers started using this material. I like the new material much better than the plain paper.


Denso makes these filters. I've only seen those 3 layer air filters in import applications but I would like to see them for GM, Ford, etc.

 

[TC]

Originally Posted By: Quest
you can't compare the pleates to determine it's performance.

Q.


No, but I believe it does reflect on quality. German filters for my VW typically have more pleats than say, Frams. Unless the Frams somehow have deeper pleats, they'll have a reduced net surface area. Since filter makers often buy from Pall or other media manufacturers, their medias should be more similar than different. So if one filter has, say, 25% less media area than a more expensive filter, it might mean nothing....but my guess is it means just what you’d expect….that a bean counter got hold of the filter and knocked a few coins off its manufacturing cost by reducing the net media size.

If various medias are more similar than different from each other, then more pleat count/more pleat depth generally wins. The more expensive, reputable air and oil filters generally have pleats o’ plenty – I don’t think that’s by chance. Frams, on the other hand, generally have a cheaper (both cost and quality) reputation, and….drumroll, please….smaller media areas and pleat counts, once again, not by chance, but presumably a gift from their bean counters.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
.....If various medias are more similar than different from each other, then more pleat count/more pleat depth generally wins......

I wouldn't disagree with that statement. In this case though, the medias appear and feel not that similar. Not sure a direct pleat count comparison is applicable here. Just by observation, and lacking proof to the contrary, I feel just as confident with the new Fram AF design as I did with the old.

 

[Mr Nice]

I have always liked Fram air filter for their construction and price.

 

[zmelli]

I would try to avoid giving my money to China. Even Honda has thrown in the towel and contracted Fram to build their Accord Filters.

I think I would rather buy Pentius next time.

 

[Voltmaster]

Kind of off topic but I rather pay more for non-China [censored]

Not as much K&N wants tho

I got some pentius made in Canada a few months back. I noticed good performance increased compared to FRAM going on freeway ramp. Too bad they're only OEM now.