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#2286972 - 06/13/11 12:48 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: MMasz]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 3961
Loc: Michigan
I think there would be about a 2% decrease in fuel mileage. Whether or not you would notice it depends on how carefully you monitor fuel consumption. I don't think there is a need to jump 2 viscosity grades. Go to 5w30 if you are working the engine hard.
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#2286998 - 06/13/11 01:20 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: MMasz]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25631
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I've never noticed any change in fuel economy regardless of grade in the Expedition. 5w40 to 5w20. It is big, and it is heavy.

That said, mine has always gotten decent mileage for the breed.
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#2287996 - 06/14/11 03:45 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: CATERHAM]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 1545
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: MMasz

It won't harm your engine. In Europe they recommend anything between 0W-20 and 20W-50 for engines that strictly call for 0W-20 in US.

You will see most benefits from 5W-40 if you drive hard or do towing. Most engine damage occurs because of oil-film breakdown during high acceleration from a full stop. 5W-40 will help if this is your driving habit. Otherwise, 5W-20 should be OK for gentle driving and no towing, no uphill driving, etc.

As far as fuel economy is concerned, you will see little difference if you drive hard. If you drive gently, you will see about 1 MPG drop from switching to 5W-40.
If you do switch, Rotella T6 should be a good choice.

Poor misleading advice.
No matter how hard ( meaning fast) you drive or how heavy a trailer you may tow is, there is ZERO benefit and many disadvantages (in addition to the 4 to 10% fuel economy drop) to running an oil two grades heavier than what the manufacturer (Ford) recommends. The reason is that it you will not be able to acheive oil temp's high enough to thin out the 40wt oil into the optimum range.
Even with the spec' 5W-20 oil, 99% of the time the oil will be thicker than optimum that's how high the viscosity safety margin is with the allegedly light oil grade.

But don't take my word for it, there isn't a well regarded member on this board that would support the notion.

You're only thinking about oil pressure and flow at high RPM. Most engine wear occurs not at high RPM but at low RPM and high torque -- in other words, acceleration from a full stop. In order to prevent metal - metal contact at such conditions, which is known as boundary lubrication, where the only protection is antiwear additives that coat the metal parts, you need to have a sufficient high-temperature, high-shear (HTHS) viscosity to prevent oil-film breakdown due to low RPM, low viscosity, and high torque. (Oil-film thickness is directly proportional to viscosity and rate of shear [RPM] and inversely proportional to torque.)

As I said before, in Europe, all grades between 0W-20 and 20W-50 are recommended for most engines that strictly call for 0W-20 in North America -- a whole range of four steps in oil viscosity.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 256,000 M
Toyota (by ExxonMobil) SN/GF-5 0W-20 Synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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#2288008 - 06/14/11 03:54 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: CATERHAM]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: MMasz

It won't harm your engine. In Europe they recommend anything between 0W-20 and 20W-50 for engines that strictly call for 0W-20 in US.
You will see most benefits from 5W-40 if you drive hard or do towing. Most engine damage occurs because of oil-film breakdown during high acceleration from a full stop. 5W-40 will help if this is your driving habit. Otherwise, 5W-20 should be OK for gentle driving and no towing, no uphill driving, etc.
As far as fuel economy is concerned, you will see little difference if you drive hard. If you drive gently, you will see about 1 MPG drop from switching to 5W-40.
If you do switch, Rotella T6 should be a good choice.

Poor misleading advice.
No matter how hard ( meaning fast) you drive or how heavy a trailer you may tow is, there is ZERO benefit and many disadvantages (in addition to the 4 to 10% fuel economy drop) to running an oil two grades heavier than what the manufacturer (Ford) recommends. The reason is that it you will not be able to acheive oil temp's high enough to thin out the 40wt oil into the optimum range.
Even with the spec' 5W-20 oil, 99% of the time the oil will be thicker than optimum that's how high the viscosity safety margin is with the allegedly light oil grade.

But don't take my word for it, there isn't a well regarded member on this board that would support the notion.

4 to 10% you are on drugs. There are only a few people on this board I would have to agree with and they are not those who regurgitate factoids from oil 101. I have seen the insides of more engines from industrial to blown alky boat engines to have any article reader tell me otherwise.
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#2288010 - 06/14/11 03:57 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: uart]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Originally Posted By: uart
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
It won't harm your engine. In Europe they recommend anything between 0W-20 and 20W-50 for engines that strictly call for 0W-20 in US.


Same thing here in Australia. These are scanned images from my (original) owners manuals for
1. 2005 Mazda 2
2. 2005 Prius.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
That is because everything is upside down in Aus!!! hide hide crackmeup
_________________________
Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

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#2288060 - 06/14/11 05:04 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: MMasz]
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2903
Loc: Lakeville, MN
Been there, done that, and not going back.

I owned a '99 F150 with the 4.6. I ran 5w20, 5w30, and 5w40 in it for year long periods.

There was no difference (statistical) in the fuel mileage between the 5w20 and 5w30.

5w40 resulted in a 7% drop in fuel mileage compared to the other two. Again, note this was over a 1 year period under similar usage.

Two points: It gets cold here, and my perception is the 40 weight was definitely too heavy in the winter here and resulted in significant drag. Second: I was also running similar experiments in my Jeep Cherokee at the time, and noted NO loss of fuel mileage in the 4.0l.

The UOA's were posted on the board way back when I did this. There was little difference between the weights. 5w40 cut the consumption down though.

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#2288063 - 06/14/11 05:05 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: Steve S]
MNgopher Offline


Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2903
Loc: Lakeville, MN
Originally Posted By: Steve S
4 to 10% you are on drugs. There are only a few people on this board I would have to agree with and they are not those who regurgitate factoids from oil 101. I have seen the insides of more engines from industrial to blown alky boat engines to have any article reader tell me otherwise.


I know I'm not on drugs and I did note a 7% loss of fuel mileage in my case. Again, note that its gets cold here in the winter and 5w40 was not the solution for that issue in my case. Your mileage may vary...

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#2288073 - 06/14/11 05:24 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: MMasz]
mongo161 Offline


Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 3198
Loc: Coney Island, NY
You could add a couple of quarts of 5w20 to your 5w40 to smooth things out.
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#2288084 - 06/14/11 05:33 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: MMasz]
Jeff_in_VABch Offline


Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 395
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: MMasz
Im considering using Rotella T6 5W40 in my Expedition on my next change instead of 5W20. Will this affect my gas mileage?

Thanks in advance.


Minimally in the hottest parts of the summer.

More drag and pumping/power loss effect in the winter, and I would use something lighter for anything but summer.
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Background - Performed work at refineries and several oil blending plants.
Occupation - Mech Engr

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#2288346 - 06/14/11 10:36 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: crinkles]
ericthepig Offline


Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1648
Loc: Little Rock, AR
Originally Posted By: crinkles
I've had my best mileages in 5 years using 15w-40.


Makes no sense, but me too. 15w40 (Schaeffers) in the Sienna - best mpg ever - close to 26mpg HW (very few data pts though). I now typically run slightly above 5w20 visc (mix of 5w30 and 5w20), and I see 23+mpg max.
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'06 Mazda 6 (97k) - Pennz YB 5w20 for summer (1 filter/yr)
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#2288424 - 06/15/11 01:02 AM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: MMasz]
Y_K Offline


Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 980
Loc: WA (USA)
Amateurs argue the case few professionals can agree on, with a speck of a dogma thrown in here and there.
On a side note: Ford is not only a 'manufacturer', it needs to sell the product, and, along the way, avoid Gov penalties.
As for 7% variance in mpg, check your spark plugs, tire pressure and get a good graphing code reader.
Good point on lower rpm and higher torque..
After Ford moved to lower viscosity, it had to increase sump capacity by 20% in Panthers. Use your head instead of repeating hearsay with authority.
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#2288428 - 06/15/11 01:19 AM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: MMasz]
Falcon_LS Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 3463
Loc: Kuwait
I have used a range of different viscosities in my Modular 4.6, from 10W-30 to 0W-40 and 5W-30 to 0W-30 respectively with little to no difference in fuel economy. I do not follow API and ILSAC standards, but rather focus on ACEA A3/B3/B4 or A5/B5 based lubricants instead.

Whilst Ford recommends 5W-20 for these engines in the States, 10W-30 is what they recommended for these engines in the Middle East. Motorcraft 5W-50 is in fact specified for some applications. In Australia, 5W-40 is recommended as a premium oil for these engines.

At my next oil change, I'm looking at Liqui-Moly Synthoil High Tech 5W-40. Personally, I'm not just looking at viscosity, but base oils and additive packs as well.

I'm not arguing thicker or thinner is better, but provided you use a sensible viscosity (e.g. not a 15W-40 in Canadian winters and not a 20W-50 in a modern engine that isn't used for racing applications), there shouldn't be a problem.
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01 Marquis: M1 ESP Formula 5W-30/FL820S
05 Envoy: M1 ESP Formula 5W-30/51522XP

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#2288434 - 06/15/11 01:57 AM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: Steve S]
crinkles Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 5463
Loc: australia
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: uart
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
It won't harm your engine. In Europe they recommend anything between 0W-20 and 20W-50 for engines that strictly call for 0W-20 in US.


Same thing here in Australia. These are scanned images from my (original) owners manuals for
1. 2005 Mazda 2
2. 2005 Prius.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
That is because everything is upside down in Aus!!! hide hide crackmeup


Seriously considering running M1 5w-50 (yes, fifty) my next OCI for 10,000 miles
_________________________
Pennzoil SUV 5w-30

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#2289030 - 06/15/11 07:35 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: Y_K]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25631
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Amateurs argue the case few professionals can agree on, with a speck of a dogma thrown in here and there.
On a side note: Ford is not only a 'manufacturer', it needs to sell the product, and, along the way, avoid Gov penalties.
As for 7% variance in mpg, check your spark plugs, tire pressure and get a good graphing code reader.
Good point on lower rpm and higher torque..
After Ford moved to lower viscosity, it had to increase sump capacity by 20% in Panthers. Use your head instead of repeating hearsay with authority.


Don't forget the factory oil coolers!

My Expedition spec's 5w20. It also has a large oil cooler and 6L sump.
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Network Engineer
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01 BMW ///M5
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#2289143 - 06/15/11 09:23 PM Re: Using 5W40 instead of 5W20 [Re: ericthepig]
uart Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 721
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: ericthepig
Originally Posted By: crinkles
I've had my best mileages in 5 years using 15w-40.


Makes no sense, but me too. 15w40 (Schaeffers) in the Sienna - best mpg ever - close to 26mpg HW (very few data pts though). I now typically run slightly above 5w20 visc (mix of 5w30 and 5w20), and I see 23+mpg max.


That's interesting, I see that both yourself and crinkles are from somewhere with a warm climate.

I know a lot of different figures always get thrown around here when this subject of fuel economy versus oil grade comes up. One thing I've noticed is that people in warm climates seldom notice much (if any) negative impact of running a thicker oil. I'm not just talking about the two users quoted above, but also anecdotal evidence from various people in different climatic conditions. I seem to be seeing a consistent story, a small but sometimes noticeable reduction in FE for those in a very cold climates but very rarely any noticeable effect for those in a warm climate.

So I'm pretty sure that the issue is mostly where the car is run for a significant amount of time with the oil well below normal operating temperature. We've all seen the viscosity versus temperature curves and know that it's down at the low temperatures where the huge increases in viscosity occur, and where there's also huge viscosity differences between grades.

Where I am in Australia we operate in summer temperatures up to about 45C (over 110F) and xW40 oils are the norm and seem to work well.

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