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#2273370 - 05/28/11 05:49 PM Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower
Jeepster_nut Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 980
Loc: East Coast
I just bought a new Toro 221QE (38584)141cc Two-Cycle snowblower. The recommended oil states that it has to be NMMA TCW III rated. I am assuming it needs marine two cycle because of the moisture in snow. What would be a good 2 cycle to run in this? I use Stihl HP Ultra in my other 2 strokes, but it doesn't have the rating that the Toro requires. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
_________________________
For every complex problem there is a simple solution...and it is wrong. - H.L. Mencken

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#2273388 - 05/28/11 06:15 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
daddi Offline


Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 384
Loc: NOVA
Sorry I can't help you on the Toro oil. But I would like to know what you think about the Stihl oil?? I recently bought a nice two stroke trimmer and I'm considering using it. Tom

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#2273400 - 05/28/11 06:27 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: daddi]
barlowc Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 2043
Loc: Southeast Michigan
I've been running PYB 2-cycle in my Toro snowblower for years. Anything with the appropriate ratings, mixed at the appropriate ratio, will be fine.
_________________________
2013 Cadillac ATS
- 2.0T RWD 6AT, 23K Miles
- Dealer Fill (5W-30 dexos1) w/ OE Filter

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#2273401 - 05/28/11 06:27 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
IanInCalgary Offline


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 35
Loc: Alberta
I've been using Shell Nautilus for several years now. It is rated TC and TC-W3 and is suitable for 100:1 ratios. Although I no longer have a 2-stroke snow blower (I had a John Deere single stage), I use it in my 2-stroke Honda EX350 generator, and my 9.8 HP Yamaha outboard - both use 100:1.

Ian

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#2273408 - 05/28/11 06:40 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: daddi]
Jeepster_nut Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 980
Loc: East Coast
Originally Posted By: daddi
Sorry I can't help you on the Toro oil. But I would like to know what you think about the Stihl oil?? I recently bought a nice two stroke trimmer and I'm considering using it. Tom


I like the Stihl oil. Smoke free (even when cold) and not bad smelling coming out of the exhaust. The spark plugs look perfect as well.
_________________________
For every complex problem there is a simple solution...and it is wrong. - H.L. Mencken

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#2273409 - 05/28/11 06:41 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: barlowc]
Jeepster_nut Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 980
Loc: East Coast
Originally Posted By: barlowc
I've been running PYB 2-cycle in my Toro snowblower for years. Anything with the appropriate ratings, mixed at the appropriate ratio, will be fine.


Is PYB TCW-III? I was wondering if I actually have to run the TCW-III or not.
_________________________
For every complex problem there is a simple solution...and it is wrong. - H.L. Mencken

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#2273425 - 05/28/11 07:05 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
barlowc Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 2043
Loc: Southeast Michigan
Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
Is PYB TCW-III?

PENNZOIL® PREMIUM OUTBOARD AND MULTI-PURPOSE TWO-CYCLE OIL is certified by the National Marine Manufacturer's Association (NMMA) as an approved NMMA TC-W3® lubricant. It contains Pennzoil premium quality lubricating oil plus ashless additives and increased detergency to give the best quality protection in all types of high performance two-cycle engines calling for TC-W®, TC-WII®, and TC-W3® oils. PENNZOIL® PREMIUM OUTBOARD AND MULTI-PURPOSE TWO-CYCLE OIL also exceeds the performance requirements of the API TC Service Classification which is commonly recommended for air-cooled two-cycle engines.
_________________________
2013 Cadillac ATS
- 2.0T RWD 6AT, 23K Miles
- Dealer Fill (5W-30 dexos1) w/ OE Filter

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#2273439 - 05/28/11 07:26 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
greenaccord02 Offline


Registered: 04/22/07
Posts: 5215
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
Poulan sells a synthetic 2T at walmart, now. Seems to be a fair deal.
_________________________
  1. '95 Dakota 3.9L - M1 0W-40 - MC FL1A
  2. '97 Accord F22-B1 - M1 5W-30 - Bosch 3312
  3. '99 Camry 1MZ-FE - PP 5W-30 - M1-209

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#2273463 - 05/28/11 08:02 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
Tdbo Offline


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1713
Loc: Ohio
Bought the exact same snow blower in March. The dealer I purchased from recommends the Echo synthetic blend. Used it in the Toro the duration of the winter and have been using it in all my other two cycle equipment since March. Have been pleased, smoking is dramatically reduced and even my old weed eater runs smoother.
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord LX-P 54K
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2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L 70K
2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 82K

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#2273709 - 05/29/11 07:27 AM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Tdbo]
Jeepster_nut Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 980
Loc: East Coast
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Bought the exact same snow blower in March. The dealer I purchased from recommends the Echo synthetic blend. Used it in the Toro the duration of the winter and have been using it in all my other two cycle equipment since March. Have been pleased, smoking is dramatically reduced and even my old weed eater runs smoother.


How do you like the Toro? I know they came out with a 4 stroke this year but I wanted something with a known history engine wise.
_________________________
For every complex problem there is a simple solution...and it is wrong. - H.L. Mencken

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#2273713 - 05/29/11 07:36 AM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
Johnny Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 14013
Loc: Retired | Wausau, WI
Jeepster, Toro's recommendation has nothing to do with the moisture in the snow. It is the spec they have recommended for all their 2-cycle equipment since they bought Lawn Boy and that is what Lawn Boy use to recommend.

The Stihl Ultra you have in stock will work just fine (great) in your Toro snowblower. It is one of the better small engine 2-cycle oil out there.

The Toro you bought is an excellent blower and should give you many years of trouble free service.

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#2273727 - 05/29/11 07:59 AM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
boraticus Offline


Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 2533
Loc: Canada
I bought a Toro QE221 back in January. Excellent SS machine.

I also own a couple Tecumseh 5 h.p. two cycle powered SS snow throwers to play with. I over-ride the governors on the Tecumseh engines to run a twice the operating rpms producing probably twice the power.

I flogged an old 1997 Craftsman machine mercilessly all winter running at 6000+ rpms and it runs great. At those speeds, it will out-perform the Toro. At it's stock speed of 3600 rpm, it's extremely lame.

I do not use TC W oil in any air cooled engines and for the life of me, I cannot understand why Toro would recommend a TC W3 oil for an air cooled engine.

Two cycle oils with the W in the rating nomenclature is for use with engines that will be used on the water. It has more to do with the use of organic components to improve exhaust emissions dispersal and reduce environmental impact than engine lubrication.

I own over twenty air cooled two cycle engines in all kinds of applications from motorcycles, snowmobiles to OPE. Everything air cooled gets TC-3 Canadian Tire Brand Motomaster two cycle oil. Been using it for twenty years or more with NO problems. At $15.00 or so per 4L jug, It's great oil for a great price.

See following excerpt from an article published by Spectro Oil:

"To prevent carbon buildup in the piston ring grooves, these TC oils used metal based detergents that were very effective in motorcycle engines but caused some problems in outboard engines when operated at long periods of time at one throttle setting. A whisker-like bridge could form across the sparkplug gap to permanently foul a cylinder under these conditions while the motorcyclist operating his engine at a constantly changing throttle setting never encountered this problem. When the BIA developed the TC-W rating, they excluded the use of these metal-based detergents in favor of organic detergents to eliminate this problem in outboard engines. These TC-W oils (two-cycle, water cooled) also contained lighter base oils without the bright stock 150. For engines operating in the 4,000 rpm to 5,000 rpm range, the absence of the bright stock 150 had no affect on piston and bearing life. However, off-road motorcyclists testing these new TC-W oils were disappointed with the bearing life of their engines operating at 10,000 - 11,000 rpm and quickly returned to using the TC oils."




For more of this article, here's the link:

Oil Info

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#2273738 - 05/29/11 08:10 AM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Johnny]
Jeepster_nut Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 980
Loc: East Coast
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Jeepster, Toro's recommendation has nothing to do with the moisture in the snow. It is the spec they have recommended for all their 2-cycle equipment since they bought Lawn Boy and that is what Lawn Boy use to recommend.

The Stihl Ultra you have in stock will work just fine (great) in your Toro snowblower. It is one of the better small engine 2-cycle oil out there.

The Toro you bought is an excellent blower and should give you many years of trouble free service.



I was hoping to hear that it was ok to use the Stihl HP Ultra that I currently have. Usually in the fall once leave clean up is done I pour whats left in my 1 gallon into my car, but now I can just hold it until the snow comes and use it in the toro. Less waste!
_________________________
For every complex problem there is a simple solution...and it is wrong. - H.L. Mencken

Top
#2273744 - 05/29/11 08:15 AM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: boraticus]
Jeepster_nut Offline


Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 980
Loc: East Coast
Originally Posted By: boraticus
I bought a Toro QE221 back in January. Excellent SS machine.

I also own a couple Tecumseh 5 h.p. two cycle powered SS snow throwers to play with. I over-ride the governors on the Tecumseh engines to run a twice the operating rpms producing probably twice the power.

I flogged an old 1997 Craftsman machine mercilessly all winter running at 6000+ rpms and it runs great. At those speeds, it will out-perform the Toro. At it's stock speed of 3600 rpm, it's extremely lame.

I do not use TC W oil in any air cooled engines and for the life of me, I cannot understand why Toro would recommend a TC W3 oil for an air cooled engine.

Two cycle oils with the W in the rating nomenclature is for use with engines that will be used on the water. It has more to do with the use of organic components to improve exhaust emissions dispersal and reduce environmental impact than engine lubrication.

I own over twenty air cooled two cycle engines in all kinds of applications from motorcycles, snowmobiles to OPE. Everything air cooled gets TC-3 Canadian Tire Brand Motomaster two cycle oil. Been using it for twenty years or more with NO problems. At $15.00 or so per 4L jug, It's great oil for a great price.

See following excerpt from an article published by Spectro Oil:

"To prevent carbon buildup in the piston ring grooves, these TC oils used metal based detergents that were very effective in motorcycle engines but caused some problems in outboard engines when operated at long periods of time at one throttle setting. A whisker-like bridge could form across the sparkplug gap to permanently foul a cylinder under these conditions while the motorcyclist operating his engine at a constantly changing throttle setting never encountered this problem. When the BIA developed the TC-W rating, they excluded the use of these metal-based detergents in favor of organic detergents to eliminate this problem in outboard engines. These TC-W oils (two-cycle, water cooled) also contained lighter base oils without the bright stock 150. For engines operating in the 4,000 rpm to 5,000 rpm range, the absence of the bright stock 150 had no affect on piston and bearing life. However, off-road motorcyclists testing these new TC-W oils were disappointed with the bearing life of their engines operating at 10,000 - 11,000 rpm and quickly returned to using the TC oils."




For more of this article, here's the link:

Oil Info


Im coming from a 2 stage 7 year old craftsman that took a beating this past winter. I like the lighter Toro that I can get on my deck to clear the snow from it. The 2 stage wouldnt fit on my deck. Im only a little concerned about the street side of my driveway with the plow drive by's but other than that I think the Toro will suit me just fine, and take up less space. Plus I can load it into my CR-V and bring it to my Mom's or in for service if need be.
_________________________
For every complex problem there is a simple solution...and it is wrong. - H.L. Mencken

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#2274034 - 05/29/11 04:57 PM Re: Oil recommendations for Toro 2 cycle snowblower [Re: Jeepster_nut]
Tdbo Offline


Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1713
Loc: Ohio
Having had a Craftsman single stage for 11 years, there is a night and day difference between the two machines. I'm impressed with the machine. I probably could have patched the Craftsman together for another year or two but I wanted a 2 cycle and I found out that next year would be the last year for the 2 cycle in the Toro so I got while the getting was still good.
_________________________
2012 Honda Accord LX-P 54K
2008 Ford Mustang Pony Package Convertible 12K
2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L 70K
2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 82K

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