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#2192391 - 03/07/11 09:05 PM Valero's position on Top Tier fuels....
Drew2000 Offline


Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 973
Loc: Long Island, NY
Sent a e-mail to Valero (largest refiner in the USA) about detergents in their gas grades and got a straight-forward expanation of their position....

Does Valero Premium Unleaded contain more detergents than the regular grade? Does the detergent quantity just "meet" EPA requirements, or exceed them? Thanks

Thanks for being our customer. Great question! Premium contains the same amount as regular and midgrade. We target 110% of the EPA requirement, but do not make claims that it is better. Nearly all of the fuel we sell is 10% Ethanol, which boosts the octane even though we try to compensate for it.
We are cautious about spiking fuel to top tier, which is usually 2 X the EPA requirements. The reason being there is little research data supporting "no harms" on engines with over additized ethanol blended fuel at this time. We cannot justify the cost of top tier status, since only a small percentage of customers will actually benefit. Top tier of any over additized fuel only really benefits high performance engines.

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#2192406 - 03/07/11 09:12 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33775
Loc: New Jersey
It seems that there is a balance of having too much additive in terms of wear rates and other things... for a long time we have seen that soft metal wear can occur at a higher rate if too much cleaner add is used. That said, not sure what "high performance" engines they are speaking of. Just because they may run hotter, then they may coke up? Why would they benefit more? Just because they have likely a more willing consumer base to pick up the cost?

I do have to believe that what the EPA specifies is decent enough for most an engine on the road. And Im not sold that top tier, or any additives besides a UCL necessarily do much. But dont know that I buy their high performance engine bit either...

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#2192417 - 03/07/11 09:24 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
Hallmark Offline


Registered: 10/28/10
Posts: 830
Loc: Pacific Northwest
A review of the technical data re: use of top tier (TT) fuels vs other fuels does not offer support that TT fuels are advantagous. Similarly, any premium/branded API motor oil will suffice for engine lubrication requirements if manufacturer's OCI/weight recommendations are followed.

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#2192420 - 03/07/11 09:25 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
zloveraz Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 856
Loc: Plano, TX
One has to wonder is if one uses only top tier gas will that help with the DI deposit issues?

I'm lucky as I have a local Quick Trip which is a top tier member and so far besides Shell has been the only gas in my new Cayman.

http://www.toptiergas.com/

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
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#2192490 - 03/07/11 10:18 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
I don't buy what they are saying. I think the EPA additive level is too low and minimal. Other companies say they have done extensive research with their fuel additives doing no engine harm. Some cars will clog injectors using non top tier gas. There's a cost incentive for a gas company to use the minimum additives. I can find top tier gas at the same price.

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#2192661 - 03/08/11 07:27 AM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: zloveraz]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3762
Loc: KC
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
One has to wonder is if one uses only top tier gas will that help with the DI deposit issues?

I'm lucky as I have a local Quick Trip which is a top tier member and so far besides Shell has been the only gas in my new Cayman.

http://www.toptiergas.com/

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html




DI deposit issues are not fuel related but oil vapor related. Gas can do nothing for it nor can gas additives.
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#2192693 - 03/08/11 08:11 AM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: mechanicx]
CROWNVIC4LIFE Offline


Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3735
Loc: Miami-Dade County
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't buy what they are saying. I think the EPA additive level is too low and minimal. Other companies say they have done extensive research with their fuel additives doing no engine harm. Some cars will clog injectors using non top tier gas. There's a cost incentive for a gas company to use the minimum additives. I can find top tier gas at the same price.


I do not buy what they are saying either...I am glad I stayed far away from their fuel.
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#2193111 - 03/08/11 02:47 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
The current EPA level is too low. It simply prevents gas stations form selling fuel with NO additives which was common enough.

Valero is a discount fuel. What did you expect?

There isn't an engine sold today that isn't high performance.

Little research? How many millions of gallons of TopTier fuel is sold daily? Is Valero implying that Shell, Mobil, Chevron... did't do ANY reasearch?
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#2193175 - 03/08/11 03:33 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
jmac Offline


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 1166
Loc: N. Texas
Funny! Down here in the land of the home of Valero corp. they are definitely not discount stations.
Being so I do not shy away from using their fuel, but as I can usually get TT for less I do not tend to choose them either!

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#2194408 - 03/09/11 04:06 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
Ethanol raises the octane, but is compensated.
Well, whoopie!
Back to square one!

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#2194426 - 03/09/11 04:25 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 6754
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
The bottom line said it all. "We cannot justify the cost of top tier status,..........." In addition; my Velor station has its fuel priced as high or higher than the Top tier stations like Shell, Texico etc.


Edited by Eddie (03/09/11 04:27 PM)
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#2195134 - 03/10/11 09:00 AM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
Drew2000 Offline


Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 973
Loc: Long Island, NY
The Valero station near me is a good .20 cents regular/.25 premium (.10 discount cash price) less than the other stations. It's a newer station so I don't know if they're doing a "loss leader" on the gas, but they definitely move product.

I switch back and forth...for credit card purchases, I'll use BP/Shell/Mobil, but If I have cash I swing by the Valero. Car runs good on Valero, but the best idle smoothness seems to come from BP.
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#2209499 - 03/23/11 03:35 PM Re: Valero's position on Top Tier fuels.... [Re: Drew2000]
gfh77665 Offline


Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 2312
Loc: Southeast Texas
Originally Posted By: Drew2000


Premium contains the same amount as regular and midgrade. We target 110% of the EPA requirement, but do not make claims that it is better. Nearly all of the fuel we sell is 10% Ethanol, .... We cannot justify the cost of top tier status, since only a small percentage of customers will actually benefit. Top tier of any over additized fuel only really benefits high performance engines.


Excellent, STRAIGHT FORWARD response from Valero! Compare this to the motor oil Q&A's from SOPUS and XOM recently!

thumbsup thumbsup Valero!

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