Recent Topics
Could this be as good as last year?
by John_K
04/24/14 01:47 PM
Road trip to Palo Duro Canyon?
by Benzadmiral
04/24/14 12:42 PM
Pork Brine!
by 123Saab
04/24/14 09:57 AM
Water in Gas
by outoforder
04/24/14 09:12 AM
Valve job pics
by Stelth
04/24/14 09:01 AM
2000 Yamaha V-Star Mobil Delvac 15w40 @ 3000 miles
by outoforder
04/24/14 08:58 AM
Adding SSD to a 6-year-old desktop?
by Quattro Pete
04/24/14 08:37 AM
Laptop hard drive
by Oldmoparguy1
04/24/14 08:11 AM
carquest 5w30 full synthetic
by waltywalt
04/24/14 08:03 AM
Summer Car - start up
by 2stroker
04/24/14 07:59 AM
Small engine, PCMO or HDEO?
by supercity
04/24/14 06:50 AM
please explain twin hammer vs twin clutch impacts
by Donald
04/24/14 06:49 AM
Newest Members
2stroker, BMWR1200GS, Npeters1205, shrekulo, Helpme
49680 Registered Users
Who's Online
89 registered (440Magnum, 901Memphis, 99Saturn, actionstan, 123Saab, and111, 6 invisible), 2080 Guests and 190 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
49680 Members
64 Forums
212360 Topics
3329125 Posts

Max Online: 2651 @ 04/21/14 04:38 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2171530 - 02/15/11 12:05 AM cSt comparison chart
RamFan Offline


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 1520
Loc: Illinois, U.S.A
Hello all-
I recently purchased an '07 3.5l Charger. It is still under warranty so I started looking for the thinnest 10w30 and 5w30 oils available. I decided to post my findings, I hope this is helpful to you. I used the BITOG calculator to determine temperatures other than 40*C and 100*C.

-20*C = -4*F
0*C = 32*F
25*C = 77*F
40*C = 104*C
100*C = 212*F



Ultra
-20*C 0*C 25*C 40*C 100*C
10w30 3031.94 559.54 123.16 61.9 10.3
5w30 2225.17 459.34 110.44 57.5 10.3

Platinum
10w30 3119.64 575.11 126.32 63.4 10.5
5w30 2225.17 459.34 110.44 57.5 10.3

Mobil 1
10w30 3291.16 600.48 130.66 65.3 10.7
5w30 2489.7 511.25 121.85 63.1 11.1

SynPower
10w30 3246.77 589.89 128.1 64 10.5
5w30 2308.06 474.5 113.58 59 10.5

Ultimate Durability
10w30 4783.47 556.57 125.92 63.9 10.8
5w30 3536.77 461.45 111.99 58.5 10.53

Edge (W/ Syntec and Titanium)
10w30 3294.47 576.14 122 60.46 9.82
5w30 2083.74 430.24 103.78 54.17 9.8

I'd like to post this as a picture so it isn't smooshed up but I can't figure out how, if someone could give me a tip it would be great.




Edited by RamFan (02/15/11 12:15 AM)
Edit Reason: Tried to add as a picture
_________________________
06 Monte Carlo LT
+3.9l V6 - 142k - Havoline HM 5w30 - Security - OLM
14 CX-5 Grand Touring AWD
+2.5l I4 - 15k - Havoline 0w20 - Security - 6k/6mo

Top
#2171536 - 02/15/11 12:22 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: RamFan]
RamFan Offline


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 1520
Loc: Illinois, U.S.A
Here is the table in a little cleaner format. Note that the Edge is the new formula and that Edge with Syntec and Edge with Titanium have the same numbers.

_________________________
06 Monte Carlo LT
+3.9l V6 - 142k - Havoline HM 5w30 - Security - OLM
14 CX-5 Grand Touring AWD
+2.5l I4 - 15k - Havoline 0w20 - Security - 6k/6mo

Top
#2171543 - 02/15/11 12:31 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: RamFan]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
interesting. Looks like QSUD is lacking in the cold flow dept. I always read into things too much. Are you sure you got the #'s right between PP&PU 5w30? They are exact.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


Top
#2171562 - 02/15/11 01:14 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: chubbs1]
RamFan Offline


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 1520
Loc: Illinois, U.S.A
Yeah I think that there is an error somewhere with the numbers between the PP and Ultra in 5w30. I am inclined to believe that the error lies with the PP numbers, I had to go through the Shell website to find its numbers though and the PDS was of the new GF5, SN formula so who knows? confused
_________________________
06 Monte Carlo LT
+3.9l V6 - 142k - Havoline HM 5w30 - Security - OLM
14 CX-5 Grand Touring AWD
+2.5l I4 - 15k - Havoline 0w20 - Security - 6k/6mo

Top
#2171567 - 02/15/11 01:32 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: RamFan]
CATERHAM Online   content


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8991
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
RamFan, I'm afraid you're playing a mug's game because comparing the kinematic viscosities of different oils is very misleading.
What you really need to do is compare the HTHS vis and VI's of various oils.
The following post explains why in more detail:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1993351&page=1

For example M1 10W-30 has a HTHS of 3.26cP and VI of 154 vs 3.13cP and 170 for M1 5W-30. What that means is that M1 10W-30 will be about 10% thicker at 100C than M1 5W-30, not the 4% thinner that the KV100 spec's would indicate. At 40C the 10W-30 will be 20% thicker and more than 30% at 0C.

I know this may be confusing, but in the next couple of days I'm planning on posting an fairly easy way (I hope) of calculating and graphing the actual real viscosity differences I mentioned.

Stay tuned.
_________________________
'74 Lotus Europa - 5W-50,VSOT
'86 Porsche 928S - TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40 blend
'96 BMW 328i - Idemitsu 0W-20/M1 0W-40 "
'94 Caterham 7 - Sustina 0W-20

Top
#2171617 - 02/15/11 06:49 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: RamFan]
pbm Offline


Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 4938
Loc: New York
It does appear that QSUD is not the oil I want to run in the winter.

Top
#2171625 - 02/15/11 07:20 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: RamFan]
Radman Offline


Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 467
Loc: Michigan
Excellent data compilation! Although if you added Noack values you may be surprised which is the better oil. Another member did a Noack comparison so I can't take credit for this. It does stand for reason the lower the Noack the higher the POA and quality of the oil. Not being an Amsoil fan I still must give credit where credit is due.

01. Amsoil 100% Synthetic 10w30 5.70%
02. Red Line 5w30 6.00%
03. Red Line 10w30 6.00%
04. Amsoil XL 10w30 6.70%
05. Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel 10w30 6.70%
06. Amsoil 100% Synthetic 5w30 6.90%
07. Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic 10w30 7.00%
08. Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel 5w30 7.60%
09. Valvoline Synpower 10w30 8.00%
10. Amsoil 100% Synthetic 0w30 8.65%
11. Amsoil XL 5w30 8.90%
12. Red Line 0w30 9.00%
13. Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic 5w30 9.50%
14. Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 9.70%
15. Valvoline Synpower 5w30 10.50%
16. Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10w30 11.10%
17. Pennzoil Ultra 10w30 11.20%
18. Castrol Syntec 0w30 11.28%
19. Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 11.90%
20. Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w30 12.30%
21. Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 12.50%
_________________________
2006 Maxima 110K M1-105, M1 0W40
2006 Sentra 90K M1-105, GTXHM 5W30
2010 Altima 13K M1-105, GTXHM 5W30

Top
#2171660 - 02/15/11 08:04 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: Radman]
tsduke Offline


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Radman
Excellent data compilation! Although if you added Noack values you may be surprised which is the better oil. Another member did a Noack comparison so I can't take credit for this. It does stand for reason the lower the Noack the higher the POA and quality of the oil. Not being an Amsoil fan I still must give credit where credit is due.

01. Amsoil 100% Synthetic 10w30 5.70%
02. Red Line 5w30 6.00%
03. Red Line 10w30 6.00%
04. Amsoil XL 10w30 6.70%
05. Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel 10w30 6.70%
06. Amsoil 100% Synthetic 5w30 6.90%
07. Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic 10w30 7.00%
08. Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel 5w30 7.60%
09. Valvoline Synpower 10w30 8.00%
10. Amsoil 100% Synthetic 0w30 8.65%
11. Amsoil XL 5w30 8.90%
12. Red Line 0w30 9.00%
13. Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic 5w30 9.50%
14. Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 9.70%
15. Valvoline Synpower 5w30 10.50%
16. Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10w30 11.10%
17. Pennzoil Ultra 10w30 11.20%
18. Castrol Syntec 0w30 11.28%
19. Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 11.90%
20. Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w30 12.30%
21. Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 12.50%




Where does M1 fall in that list.

Top
#2171671 - 02/15/11 08:17 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: tsduke]
CarbonCrew Offline


Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 88
Loc: SC
If the NOACK/PAO content assumption and chart's data is correct, why would a 10w-30 require a higher PAO content then 5w-30? To me, this seems counterintuitive to common tribologist logic.

Top
#2171696 - 02/15/11 08:44 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: tsduke]
Radman Offline


Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 467
Loc: Michigan
[/quote]Where does M1 fall in that list. [/quote]

I contacted Mobil about Noack and they gave me a range i.e. 11-13%. No definitive answer from them unlike the other oil manufacturers. I am sure it could be added from virgin oil analyses found here on the board.
_________________________
2006 Maxima 110K M1-105, M1 0W40
2006 Sentra 90K M1-105, GTXHM 5W30
2010 Altima 13K M1-105, GTXHM 5W30

Top
#2171708 - 02/15/11 09:04 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: Radman]
21Rouge Offline


Registered: 06/04/05
Posts: 1935
Loc: Vinegar Hill
Originally Posted By: Radman
I contacted Mobil about Noack and they gave me a range i.e. 11-13%. No definitive answer from them unlike the other oil manufacturers. I am sure it could be added from virgin oil analyses found here on the board.


No garden variety VOA will provide the NOACK #.

Top
#2171734 - 02/15/11 09:28 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: 21Rouge]
JeremyInMT Offline


Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Montana
At this point, I'm further behind than when I started reading this thread! Interesting stuff, but I'm getting lost in the details.

Top
#2171752 - 02/15/11 09:57 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: CarbonCrew]
Radman Offline


Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 467
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: CarbonCrew
If the NOACK/PAO content assumption and chart's data is correct, why would a 10w-30 require a higher PAO content then 5w-30? To me, this seems counterintuitive to common tribologist logic.


Please do explain the “Tribologist logic”. Would it be conflicting with the accountant logic for profitable high selling 5W30?
_________________________
2006 Maxima 110K M1-105, M1 0W40
2006 Sentra 90K M1-105, GTXHM 5W30
2010 Altima 13K M1-105, GTXHM 5W30

Top
#2171765 - 02/15/11 10:17 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: pbm]
RamFan Offline


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 1520
Loc: Illinois, U.S.A
Originally Posted By: pbm
It does appear that QSUD is not the oil I want to run in the winter.


Yes it does look as if that is the case. It is weird how it compares very consistently with the other oils in both flavors until you reach -20. Then it has substantially less flowing ability. Odd how that can occur, especially with the 40 and 100 temps being so similar to the rest.
_________________________
06 Monte Carlo LT
+3.9l V6 - 142k - Havoline HM 5w30 - Security - OLM
14 CX-5 Grand Touring AWD
+2.5l I4 - 15k - Havoline 0w20 - Security - 6k/6mo

Top
#2171780 - 02/15/11 10:36 AM Re: cSt comparison chart [Re: Radman]
CATERHAM Online   content


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8991
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
IMO the NOACK percentage is one of the least important oil spec's and a higher than average value would not deter me from choosing any oil.
All SM and SN oil must have a percentage under 15 and that seems to eliminate any oil consumption due to evaporative losses. Keep in mind the NOACK test is done at 250C which is very hot indeed.
The lighter the oil the higher the NOACK % consiquently 0W-20 oils can have values approaching the 15% maximum.
An oil I'm familiar with, PP 0W-20, has a NOACK of 14% and a couple of members that have used this have noticed no measurable oil consumption over an OCI.

Now using the NOACK % as an indicator of a base oil's quality does have some validity to it but you must make sure the oil with the lower NOACK is just thicker; i.e., a higher HTHS viscosity.
_________________________
'74 Lotus Europa - 5W-50,VSOT
'86 Porsche 928S - TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40 blend
'96 BMW 328i - Idemitsu 0W-20/M1 0W-40 "
'94 Caterham 7 - Sustina 0W-20

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >