EcoBoost torture engine tear down

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It's pretty late so I am going to bed after this post, but here's the pic of the valves...

Valves1.jpg


Very good points about PCV and EGR!! I will include that in my question about valve deposits.



Steve
 
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies

My own views on that are right along with your's. Without the fuel contacting the backside of the valve there is nothing from the gasoline that can cause deposits. The only thing going past the backside of the intake valve is air.


It can be oil vapour comes from PCV or piston ring that evaporates
 
Looking at those photos, those valves are VERY clean considering the hours on this engine. If they all look like this, deposits are a non issue.

Could be comparing valves from one DI engine to another would be usefull, like comparing the engines that are known to be "sludgers" as compared to those that are easy on oil.
 
Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
Looking at those photos, those valves are VERY clean considering the hours on this engine. If they all look like this, deposits are a non issue.

Could be comparing valves from one DI engine to another would be usefull, like comparing the engines that are known to be "sludgers" as compared to those that are easy on oil.


Water injection?
 
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Thinking a little deeper, a consideration may have to do with the variable cam timing of this engine. At higher RPM's, under load or hard acceleration, the timing of the valve events will be adjusted for longer duration. I don't know if there is significant enough duration to cause valve overlap where the intake opens while exhaust is still being pushed out of the cylinder just before the exhaust valve closes. If that were to happen there could be a negligible amount of reversion that could cause contaminants from the combustion process to be deposited on the backside of the intake valve. I don't know if this is happening but if it is the case it would cause deposits.


My thinking is that controlled overlap in lean-burn/decel conditions (IIRC Ford has been using this type of decel tuning since 2009) could be used to help burn off intake valve deposits.
21.gif
 
Quote:
Looking at those photos, those valves are VERY clean considering the hours on this engine. If they all look like this, deposits are a non issue.


This was not the test to determine deposit issues. At high load, high RPM deposits won't form and even if they did, air speed is just too high for them to settle in the intake.
Try several cold starts a day, cold engine, high fuel dilution, these are the conditions that these deposits form.

For now we won’t know about this issue, most likely we will only find out once these engines hit service.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
This was not the test to determine deposit issues. At high load, high RPM deposits won't form and even if they did, air speed is just too high for them to settle in the intake.
Try several cold starts a day, cold engine, high fuel dilution, these are the conditions that these deposits form.

For now we won’t know about this issue, most likely we will only find out once these engines hit service.
That's pretty much what happened with the Northstars that others have mentioned. GM tested to make sure they could be run hard and they did passed. Then they went into Driving Miss Daisy service and got all congested and cranky from never getting hot and never revving past 3k.
 
Quote:
GM tested to make sure they could be run hard and they did passed. Then they went into Driving Miss Daisy service and got all congested and cranky from never getting hot and never revving past 3k.



"Driving Miss Daisy service" is exactly my concern with all the new turbo applications like in the new Cruze, as well. These little engines require high RPM fairly frequently, otherwise turbo vanes will start clogging up with carbon deposits. DI and turbocharged engine will be just so much more prone to this.

Meanwhile these cars, especially with auto transmissions, will hardly see anything above 3k RPM. It will be RX-8 all over again.

So all these new trends are good and all, but I see lots of potential troubles when it comes to everyday service.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
"Driving Miss Daisy service" is exactly my concern with all the new turbo applications like in the new Cruze, as well. These little engines require high RPM fairly frequently, otherwise turbo vanes will start clogging up with carbon deposits. DI and turbocharged engine will be just so much more prone to this.

Meanwhile these cars, especially with auto transmissions, will hardly see anything above 3k RPM. It will be RX-8 all over again.

So all these new trends are good and all, but I see lots of potential troubles when it comes to everyday service.
I see a business oportunity: Vinnie's Mobile Italian Tune-Up Service.
48.gif
 
Why would the turbo clog up with carbon deposits?

Gasoline burns hot enough that this is never an issue. Diesel it can be in some cases.

Also 1.6 turboed motor with anyone of today's leadfoots behind the wheel will be working it's tail off auto or stick.

I would be more worried about the naturally aspirated engine that never saw a remote window towards redline, this is a sure bet for deposits and carbon build up.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
My thinking is that controlled overlap in lean-burn/decel conditions (IIRC Ford has been using this type of decel tuning since 2009) could be used to help burn off intake valve deposits.
21.gif



That's what's really happening. Like I said, with enough overlap the valves may actually be 'cleansed'. Probably just needs a line or two of code in the PCM to tell the VVT when to do it.
 
I have company email at Ford so I will write to Phil Fabien, Engine Development Supervisor, and ask him about deposits on the valves. Nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth. I will also mention the Northstar reference.

Here's a picture of the combustion chambers.

CombustionChambers1.jpg




As for Jalopnik's mention of water injection, and you can see blue fluid leak out of the engine, I watched the teardown. It was projected on a LARGE screen on the wall as it was being done. There were a lot of blue lights (hey, it's a Ford display) and you could see blue "twinkles" in the projected image. Maybe that is what they were thinking of? See what I mean in this picture of the screen while the teardown was happening.

BlockandCrank1.jpg



I watched the whole process. If there was blue fluid leaking from the engine it would have needed to be neon-blue for you to identify it, and I was about 25 - 30 feet from the engine. I still think it was an anti-Ford person who made that claim, or anti-UAW. I run into that kind of stuff all the time.


Steve
 
Steve

Maybe it was coolant, coolant seems to be really easy to illuminate. It could be the blue lights on the display reflecting off the coolant. Then again maybe it had blue coolant in it, maybe it used something different in the Baja race vs. prior test.

Case in point you could see the welded charge piping for the engine in the Baja Truck. A consumer grade vehicle will most likely not get such system. Silicon hoses or even rubber is much cheaper. I bet even plastic since it does not absorb engine bay heat very well.
 
I sent the email to Phil Fabien with the concerns about valve deposits and the water injection. It will probably be next week before I hear back from him. It will be shortly after he says "Who is this guy?" LOL!
 
Thanks DT466E_bus. I found at Youtube that a lot of views of my video came from here, and I have used info from this site several times in the past, so thought I would come in and offer what I can on the EcoBoost engine used in the torture test.


Steve
 
Originally Posted By: Mavigraph
Is that a water pump I see behind the timing chain?



That would be scary as heck, wouldn't it?

No, it's not behind the timing chain. If you look at 11 seconds into my video you will see the surface and passages on the outside of the timing chain cover where the water pump mounts.

This is a nice picture of the cut-a-way engine at the Auto Show. It's high res so I am only posting a link to it. You can see the water pump in place behind the large pulley.

[link]http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/10/2011f150eco.jpg[/link]



Steve
 
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