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#2132709 - 01/09/11 03:17 AM Good fuel efficiency strategies
ueberooo Offline


Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 687
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I just recently installed my vacuum gauge and am hoping to improve my mpg's. Mainly this gauge allows you to read the throttle, which is the pressure at the manifold. The pressure is proportional to the air density, and with a fixed air/fuel ratio, this is proportional to the cubic millimeters of fuel injected into the engine, per revolution of the crankshaft.

Driving at 2/3'rds WOT (wide open throttle)--corresponding to 10 inches of mercury-- is most efficient for the typical gas engine, but staying between 85% WOT to 40% is nearly as efficient for a good range of rpm's.

Below is a bsfc chart for a typical 4 cylinder gas engine:



(taken from this thread)

It surprised me how efficient these engines run at higher rpm's. i assume this chart is for a oversquare short stoke engine; long strokes would be shifted to the left and better for lower rpms. my subie is slightly oversquare, and so i guess i won't hesitate to accelerate at 3500 anymore for fuel concerns.

So, I'm going to assume this for my car:

--Most optimal operation near 2/3 WOT is from 1500 to 3600; I'll try to use this range when power is required (getting up to speed, hills).

--Higher throttles ~80% WOT, will work better at higher rpm's; over 2500.

--At lower RPM's (less than 1750) apply even less throttle, under 1/2 WOT but over 40% WOT.

--Idle seems to be a little under 1/3 WOT (10 inches of mercury) and efficiency near this pressure is 50% that of the peak efficiency.
_________________________
--- 1995 Subie Imp EJ18, MT, with ~ 188K miles.... 10w30. I <3 MoS2 + B + Zn ----

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#2132715 - 01/09/11 04:13 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 23700
Loc: ME
In this day it's dangerous to universally apply BSFC maps to different motors. Stuff like variable valve timing and even EGR can widen the "good zone" or make hot spots of poor MPG.

I put together a hunk o junk Saturn SL1 with sport gearing from a SL2. Highway RPMs at 60 were 2850 instead of 2100. You'd think this was a disaster for MPG but I got 42 driving 60 MPH getting passed by everyone.

I know, too many variables, anecdotal evidence, etc, but my point-- don't be afraid to rev, a fear you recently got over.

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#2132751 - 01/09/11 06:55 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 6938
Loc: Rochester NY
For better MPG and to eliminate speeding tickets, I try to limit my speeds on the road/hiwy and use the CC often even around town.

The speeding tickets alone in my neck of the woods are costing people ~ $400.00 these days, points on your licence and possibly higher insurance premiums.

Slowing down and using CC has reduced all of these thing for us in our household and maybe even reduced to cost or frequency of brake repairs it seems. Maybe tires too!
_________________________
"Finally Retired"!

1980 Firebird FORMULA V8
2001 Lexus RX-300 V6
2004 Nissan Altima 2.5S
2006 Mazda 3i 2.0L

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#2132832 - 01/09/11 09:03 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: Char Baby]
RnR Offline


Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 561
Loc: Michigan, Thumb's Up!
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
For better MPG and to eliminate speeding tickets, I try to limit my speeds on the road/hiwy and use the CC often even around town.

The speeding tickets alone in my neck of the woods are costing people ~ $400.00 these days, points on your licence and possibly higher insurance premiums.

Slowing down and using CC has reduced all of these thing for us in our household and maybe even reduced to cost or frequency of brake repairs it seems. Maybe tires too!
Cost efficiency is where you find it. Smart!
_________________________
MityVac : CraftsmanUSA : CorrosionX : KanoLabs USA
Dex VI + LG Red : RMI-25 : Duragloss : ACF50
'07 GP 3.8L 150k : G-Oil : LG Bio/Tech + MoS2

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#2132863 - 01/09/11 09:39 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
Radman Offline


Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 485
Loc: Detroit, Michigan
The cam sets the sweet spot for fuel efficiency at a given rpm. Variable valve timing & fuel maps can be different for the same vehicle depending upon the ECU program. If this engine was a straight cammed engine then you would be 100% correct. There are just too many variables to apply this concept across the board.

Most and I do emphasize “most” vehicles designed for USA operation achieve the greatest fuel economy at 45 MPH. Using synthetic oils, premium fuels on a high compression engine, tires inflated to max pressures, and a clean air filter will reflect a positive difference at the pump.
Using proper maintenance and good driving techniques have yielded 38 MPG on my Esteem, 36 MPG on my Sentra, and 30 MPG on my Maxima. All this attention to maintenance & driving habits yield vehicles lasting for 350K miles and still run like new. Now that is cost effective!
_________________________
2006 Maxima 120K M1-105, M1 0W40
2006 Sentra 90K M1-105, GTX 5W30
2010 Altima 20K M1-105, GTX 5W30
2013 Yamaha FZ1 1K PL1410, SRT5 15W40

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#2132889 - 01/09/11 10:05 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
sciphi Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 8352
Loc: Upstate NY
The usual stuff: coast to lights, inflate tires, etc.

Your results will vary, obviously.
_________________________
2009 Honda Fit Sport
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco

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#2132990 - 01/09/11 11:48 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
07Wolfie Offline


Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 106
Loc: Lake Elsinore, CA, US
Here's one: Traffic. I commute 120 miles a day on Southern California freeways, and I've noticed the effect a large mass of vehicles moving at 70 or 80 MPH has on the air my car is pushing against. With my trusty UltraGauge and it's instantaneous MPG readout (calibrated, of course), I've come up with a few data points. On a flat, open highway with no other cars in front of me, cruising at 80 gets me right about 27MPG. On the 91 freeway with 5 lanes packed with cars moving fast, the center lanes seem to have more of a moving airstream than the outside ones. A steady-state cruise in one of those lanes at 80 gives me 33-35MPG. Obviously, drafting another car or big truck boosts things waaaay up there, but you can only do that so long before the driver in front of you gets angry smile I'm talking about normal (for CA, anyway) freeway following distance. If I make a conscious effort to tuck into a string of cars and minimize the time I spend in "open" lanes, I can achieve an extra 2-3 MPG per tank, consistently. I imagine it's partly turbulence and partly the cars "fanning" the air along in one direction, but it works.
_________________________
-Josh
'07 Jetta, 2.5l, 5-speed MT
'96 Ford F-250 CC 4X4, 7.3L PSD, 5-speed MT
'06 Honda Element, 2.4l, AT

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#2133161 - 01/09/11 02:58 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
Who drives at 2/3 - 80% throttle?
Only for short bursts, maybe.

And then you have to figure that if you accelerated harder than that, you would not be at or near full throttle for such a long time - you would be accelerating for a shorter duration.
This may overcome any theoretical advantage to accelerating with partial throttle settings.

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#2133165 - 01/09/11 03:03 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: mechtech2]
d00df00d Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 9077
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Who drives at 2/3 - 80% throttle?
Only for short bursts, maybe.

I do, almost all the time. wink

When I want to save fuel, I do it by shifting early and staying in high gears. I seem to get better fuel economy that way than I do by shifting later and using less throttle.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#2133263 - 01/09/11 04:43 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
LS2JSTS Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 3844
Loc: Motor City..What's Left
My understanding is, that as a general rule. It is best to accelerate moderately hard up to cruising speed and then let off to cruise. That should yield higher MPG than using a light throttle up to speed.

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#2133455 - 01/09/11 08:37 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
morris Offline


Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 3681
Loc: ks, wichita
i cant find a good vacuum gauge. course iam picky. i want the sweep to be 270 degrees.

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#2133459 - 01/09/11 08:43 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
crinkles Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 5475
Loc: World
best one: don't drive

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#2133480 - 01/09/11 09:06 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
Smokescreen Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 2282
Loc: Alberta, Canada
For how the pros do it from mild to wild...
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1510


Then, when you have skills, you go to ecomodder.com and find out more.
_________________________
09 Corolla 1.8L-212Kkms(133Kmi)-PP,Denso
05 LeSabre 3.8L-138Kkms(86Kmi)-F1,Baldwin
03 Sierra 2500 6.0L-186Kkms(116Kmi)-PYB,Baldwin

All with mpg > EPA

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#2133488 - 01/09/11 09:13 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33457
Loc: New Jersey
SFCs are great if you have a known load and need to optimize alignment of a plant to minimize fuel consumption. For a highly variable situation like an automobile, I have to wonder how useful they are besides trying to estimate efficiency.

you arent going to load an engine higher to get fewer lb of fuel per hp-hr. Higher loading is still going to correspond in most cases to higher consumption, even if the engine is using the fuel more efficiently.

My best advice is to appreciate physics and drive fr both acceleration and braking as if you have an egg between your shoe and the pedal.

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#2133503 - 01/09/11 09:26 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
Errtt Offline


Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 2116
Loc: California
I have motorcycles and drive a RAV. I don't seem as concerned about fuel like I did when I had full size mod 4wd trucks. But I don't tromp around the hills like I used to (camping, hunting, fishing, gold prospecting, metal detecting etc.)
And I use a lot less gas now for my work drive.
Going from thirsty mongers to fuel sipping economy was like a extra pay day when I made the change.

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#2133541 - 01/09/11 10:35 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
FZ1 Offline


Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 4192
Loc: Texas
You'll never save enough gas to pay for the guage. All you need to know is that the smoother and slower you go in top gear,the better your mpg. Don't lug the engine.

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#2133835 - 01/10/11 09:30 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
javacontour Offline


Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 7442
Loc: Illinois
The best thing you can do to save fuel is look far ahead. Anticipate what you are going to do ahead and then respond early.

I.E. if you see the light ahead turn red, no need to stay at 2/3rds to 80% throttle. Let off the throttle and your car will probably shut off the fuel injectors as it coasts to the next light. (Within reason of course, if you are a mile away, maybe that's not a good strategy...)

Drive SMOOTHLY, anticipate. Moderately aggressive acceleration, but try to preserve momentum. No need to add more energy to the system by staying on the gas if traffic ahead is slowing or stopping.

Also, leave a good gap between you and the car ahead. That way, you are not slamming on the brakes and can simply slow if they turn, etc.

If you want to save energy, then you have to preserve the energy you've already used by avoiding when possible giving up that energy by braking.
_________________________
network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH

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#2134782 - 01/11/11 02:55 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: FZ1]
ueberooo Offline


Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 687
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Hey thanks everyone for the tidbits of advice.

Whether its practical or significant in savings or not, I think there's some fun in knowing when the engine is operating closer to the peak of its capable efficiency.

My previous mental model of reading engine load by ear proved totally wrong and unreliable, so I'm glad I ended up installing this thing.

I didn't spend much on this at all; $25 for a cheap combined vacuum/boost gauge (see below) at pepboys. I did end up spending combined about half a day installing this thing (which involved mainly removing an almost impossible to remove screw plug with a nonstandard 7mm square bit, which didn't quite fit on a 1/4 in square drive--so after mangling it with pliers I filed the 7mm bit down to a 1/4 in bit and finally removed it).

If I had the choice of a scangauge for reading the vacuum I would've done it that way, but since my car is and OBD 1 type that wasn't an option. I wonder why manufacturers don't put this in there, esp for some of the newer cars where you access the on board computer for everything from batt voltage to instantaneous mpg.

I still have to find a better permanent location for the gauge; probably on top of the dash, so I don't take my eyes off the road for a reading.



_________________________
--- 1995 Subie Imp EJ18, MT, with ~ 188K miles.... 10w30. I <3 MoS2 + B + Zn ----

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#2134787 - 01/11/11 03:55 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
FZ1 Offline


Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 4192
Loc: Texas
Not a bad deal. Wish these automakers would put a numerical temp guage in these new cars.

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#2134921 - 01/11/11 09:39 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
Vikas Offline


Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 8001
Loc: NorthEast
For about $60 you can buy UltraGauge which gives you all the gauges that your car supports.

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#2134939 - 01/11/11 09:54 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 23700
Loc: ME
^ OP has OBD-I, non ultragauge compatible as he mentioned.

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#2135006 - 01/11/11 11:17 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
rslifkin Offline


Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 2192
Loc: Stamford, CT / Rochester, NY
I've found the biggest things that help my mileage in the Jeep are to not baby it up to speed (once warmed up, that is). What's strange is when traffic allows, and I really get on it (to the point where I'm hauling off the line compared to most people, 3k+ rpm shifts), I actually get better mileage than normal driving with 2500 rpm shifts. Part of that is from the slushy torque converter though. When I first got it, I got just over 11 mpg on an all-city tank. Then, I realized I wasn't getting on it hard enough, and picked up 1.3 mpg in the same driving for the next tank!

Coasting down to stops, and keeping it to 60 on the highway makes a huge difference too. Once up to speed and the TC is locked, this thing likes to lug down pretty low. The tranny will keep the TC locked in OD down to 36mph, which is 1050 rpm. It still accelerates from there, and will climb most hills doing 40 (1200 rpm) like that.
_________________________
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited with Heads/Cam/Headers/Exhaust/Tune/Shift Kit (171k miles, bought with 100k)
Rotella T6 @ 6k OCI

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#2135036 - 01/11/11 11:38 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
odie Offline


Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New York
We have an ECO-METER for both YARIS . Not a bad gauge at $60 each . It's amazing how idling takes a bite out of the overall average for gas mileage . www.autometer.com/ecometer/ .


Edited by odie (01/11/11 11:38 AM)

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#2135179 - 01/11/11 01:44 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: odie]
calvin1 Offline


Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 779
Loc: Indiana, USA
Originally Posted By: odie
We have an ECO-METER for both YARIS . Not a bad gauge at $60 each . It's amazing how idling takes a bite out of the overall average for gas mileage . www.autometer.com/ecometer/ .
Yeah, you have no idea just how evil stop lights are until you have something like that staring you in the face.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i/5spd - M1 0w40

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#2135340 - 01/11/11 03:34 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
sciphi Offline


Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 8352
Loc: Upstate NY
Get to speed quickly, and keep it. Many strategies can be gotten from that simple maxim. Heck, I got 29 mpg out of the Buick coming back from work today on a twisty 2-lane road by following that strategy.

And make sure your tires are inflated to recommended PSI, keep a reasonable speed for the road and road/traffic conditions, don't tailgate, plan 10 or more seconds ahead, etc.

Basically all the stuff you're supposed to do anyhow to increase safety happens to be great for getting good fuel economy.
_________________________
2009 Honda Fit Sport
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco

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#2135827 - 01/11/11 10:52 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: calvin1]
odie Offline


Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: calvin1
Originally Posted By: odie
We have an ECO-METER for both YARIS . Not a bad gauge at $60 each . It's amazing how idling takes a bite out of the overall average for gas mileage . www.autometer.com/ecometer/ .
Yeah, you have no idea just how evil stop lights are until you have something like that staring you in the face.
Especially those cold morning starts eek .

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#2136166 - 01/12/11 09:43 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
rslifkin Offline


Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 2192
Loc: Stamford, CT / Rochester, NY
Speaking of tires, I forgot to mention that. I push them a bit beyond what the door plate and tire places say is "correct" (32 - 36). I run about 40 front, 38 rear (tires are rated at 44). I'll bump them to 42/40 for road trips. It definitely makes a difference.
_________________________
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited with Heads/Cam/Headers/Exhaust/Tune/Shift Kit (171k miles, bought with 100k)
Rotella T6 @ 6k OCI

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#2136660 - 01/12/11 06:03 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: rslifkin]
Spyder7 Offline


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 2269
Loc: NL, Canada
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Speaking of tires, I forgot to mention that. I push them a bit beyond what the door plate and tire places say is "correct" (32 - 36). I run about 40 front, 38 rear (tires are rated at 44). I'll bump them to 42/40 for road trips. It definitely makes a difference.


+1. In my experience it improves both handling and FE. The tires also wear better and more evenly. Depending on the tires, there may be a small trade off in a slightly stiffer feeling ride, but its outweighed by the benefits IMHO. YMMV.

-Spyder
_________________________
2000 Corolla VE 118K km
Syntec 5W30 & QS filter



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#2137184 - 01/13/11 09:16 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
rslifkin Offline


Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 2192
Loc: Stamford, CT / Rochester, NY
^ Exactly. With my 30" tires on 16" rims having so much sidewall, it makes a massive difference in handling.
_________________________
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited with Heads/Cam/Headers/Exhaust/Tune/Shift Kit (171k miles, bought with 100k)
Rotella T6 @ 6k OCI

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#2137267 - 01/13/11 11:21 AM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 10902
Loc: North Carolina
My Toyotas have responded very well to "babying" up to speed. The Corolla was a 5-speed stick and I could short-shift it, and the Camry's 6-speed automatic locks the TCC under even low-to-moderate acceleration, so in 3rd gear or above, it responds well to low throttle inputs to get up to speed.

But this strategy back-fires on our Acura MDX. It will not lock the TCC until about 47 MPH in 5th gear, and babying it up to speed just wastes a lot of fuel. Giving it 1/2 throttle or more, getting up to speed, then backing off and letting it lock in, return the best economy.
_________________________
Cheers,
Jason

2008 Honda CR-V
2005 Acura MDX

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#2137306 - 01/13/11 12:35 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: Hokiefyd]
Spazdog Offline


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 5492
Loc: Arlington
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
My Toyotas have responded very well to "babying" up to speed. The Corolla was a 5-speed stick and I could short-shift it, and the Camry's 6-speed automatic locks the TCC under even low-to-moderate acceleration, so in 3rd gear or above, it responds well to low throttle inputs to get up to speed.
....

"babying" works well in my Aisin 6 speed Mazda too.
It won't go into 6th by itself until 42mph. I can select 6th through the manual gate and hold 35-40...whatever the speed limit is, in 6th until I come to a steep enough hill to warrant a downshift.

The only time getting up to speed quickly helps me is on stretches of road where the lights are timed. If I get to the speed limit +2 mph (shrug I don't know why. +2 works the best for me regardless of which car I'm driving) I can get in my "green light groove" and catch every light on green on that road.
The exception is the photo-enforced lights. They're never timed right. I think that is a profit maximizing tool from the private camera enforcement companies. I always catch those lights going yellow.
_________________________
2005 Mazda 6S hatchback - Mobil Super 5000 5W20
2005 Chrysler PT Cruiser GT - QSUD 5W30

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#2137444 - 01/13/11 03:30 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
tonycarguy Offline


Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 1048
Loc: Sunny Calif
- Minimizing braking by anticipating traffic lights

- Don't idle while you're waiting for someone

- Minimize useless weight. Get rid of junk in the car, and of you're obese, go on a diet. I'm serious. Think about how much gas you waste over 10 years by lugging around 125 extra pounds

- If you don't drive a lot, just fill up 1/2 the tank at a time(minimizes weight)

I don't believe in overinflating the tires because IMO that compromises safety in the name of fuel economy. The reason you get better FE is because you're reducing the size of the contact patch. It means less frictional loss but also means less traction. Most of the time it won't matter, but under extreme conditions like emergency braking, you'll need every bit of traction you can get

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#2137892 - 01/13/11 10:43 PM Re: Good fuel efficiency strategies [Re: ueberooo]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26261
Loc: a prison island
re smaller contact patch with more air, I'm not sold.

Look at the sidewall bulge...and imagine where the tread is being moved to immediately between both sides of the bulge...central contact area is being pulled up, and off the road.

You don't want a matchbox car with circular tyres, but many cars the "regular" pressure is designed for comfort, not handling.
_________________________
2003 Nissan Navara ZD30 TD, 4L Penrite racing 5W30, 3L M1 5W50
1997 Statesman Caprice, L67 (10psi), Shell Helix 15W40.
Briggs Quantum, Nulon 5W20


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