All thing being equal,would a studded tire really
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Studded tires work WAY better than the same tire without studs. The first year we moved to the mountains, I put no-studded winter tires on the wifes car, She slid all over the place. Next year, same tires with studs, radically better results. When momma isn't happy, nobody is happy.
According to traction experts, yes. However, the best winter treads are superior to studded tires in most snow conditions.
Then, there's the angst over damage to road surfaces by studded tires.
Then, there's the angst over damage to road surfaces by studded tires.
Disgree.
Well only for the first 20-50% of tire life..
The new tires that have traction compounds in the tread for the first 20-50% (depending on brand) work better than studs IMO. Plus studs to wear down once you run them on bare pavement so they loose their effectiveness.
I just run normal snows (I don't want a tire that wears out early then becomes a worn snow tire) and don't want to pay for it. If you don't drive much in the winter and the best part of the tire lasts a long time then they do well. But for someone like me who puts a lot of miles on tires I want a good snow to last.
Take care, bill
Well only for the first 20-50% of tire life..
The new tires that have traction compounds in the tread for the first 20-50% (depending on brand) work better than studs IMO. Plus studs to wear down once you run them on bare pavement so they loose their effectiveness.
I just run normal snows (I don't want a tire that wears out early then becomes a worn snow tire) and don't want to pay for it. If you don't drive much in the winter and the best part of the tire lasts a long time then they do well. But for someone like me who puts a lot of miles on tires I want a good snow to last.
Take care, bill
The simple answer is yes.
Here is a discussion which includes testing done in Norway. The tests show braking and acceleration on ice is significantly better with studded tires.
I have read other studies which say that studs help most on ice at temperatures close to freezing.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php?topic=49166.40
Here is a discussion which includes testing done in Norway. The tests show braking and acceleration on ice is significantly better with studded tires.
I have read other studies which say that studs help most on ice at temperatures close to freezing.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php?topic=49166.40
i mount a pair of studded steel tires on steel wheels from the junkyard. i put them on when its going to snow or have freezing rain. i take them off right after, they last about 10 years. but i live in north carolina.
OPs question was about ice not snow. Rubber just doesnt stick to ice. Snow tires are slightly better on ice than regular tiresdue to the porosity of the tread rubber. Ice sticks inside the pore, and ice will stick to ice. On ice studded tires always wok WAY better than the same tire without studs.
My first snow tires I bought myself I got studs because I wanted "ultimate". They were cooper weathermasters bought in 1997.
I thought they'd be like those glacier climbing spiked shoes. Nope.
First winter I had them I tried stopping at the edge of a driveway that was "white ice", ripply, pretty pure, not crunchy, dense. Slid right over like a hockey puck. If you look at ice after you skid on it you'll see scratches. Imagine a large dog on a freshly waxed floor getting all hyper and scratching his toenails. This is all studs do.
And the studs were obnoxious the rest of the time, really floating on the dry.
Never again. I just run regular winter tires now.
Ice around here is patchy. Once the roads get a good salting the residual salt takes care of the snowbank melt-off. Only large "corner piles" of snow generate enough water to rinse the salt away and refreeze as a patch of black ice.
If I don't drive like a bozo around blind corners etc any momentary traction loss can be recovered from.
I thought they'd be like those glacier climbing spiked shoes. Nope.
First winter I had them I tried stopping at the edge of a driveway that was "white ice", ripply, pretty pure, not crunchy, dense. Slid right over like a hockey puck. If you look at ice after you skid on it you'll see scratches. Imagine a large dog on a freshly waxed floor getting all hyper and scratching his toenails. This is all studs do.
And the studs were obnoxious the rest of the time, really floating on the dry.
Never again. I just run regular winter tires now.
Ice around here is patchy. Once the roads get a good salting the residual salt takes care of the snowbank melt-off. Only large "corner piles" of snow generate enough water to rinse the salt away and refreeze as a patch of black ice.
If I don't drive like a bozo around blind corners etc any momentary traction loss can be recovered from.
I've never seen a need for studded snow tires, and I live in Buffalo, NY.
I've been running studless tires or regular all season tires with no problem all my life. I've had my fair share of rwd trucks and cars also.
I've been running studless tires or regular all season tires with no problem all my life. I've had my fair share of rwd trucks and cars also.
Studs do help on ice, but are far worse to stop when on dry payment. They have been illegal here since the 70's so I never even think about them, or have a need for them. I use the same tires year round, and if you know how to drive on snow or ice you'll do fine.
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Here is another test from scandinavia.
Red highlighted tires have studs.
Blue highlighted don't have studs.
is = ice
dubbade = studded
odubbade = studless
The studded tires outperform the stud free tires in every test on ice (see page 3). This link takes a while to load:
http://wwwc.aftonbladet.se/bil/0310/18/dacktest.pdf
Red highlighted tires have studs.
Blue highlighted don't have studs.
is = ice
dubbade = studded
odubbade = studless
The studded tires outperform the stud free tires in every test on ice (see page 3). This link takes a while to load:
http://wwwc.aftonbladet.se/bil/0310/18/dacktest.pdf
I got the best of both worlds for my wife's minivan. Goodyear (Canadian Tire) ice tires with the optional studs.
They make a significant difference, especially on wet ice and very cold hard-packed snow. On the cold hard snow, you can almost drive around as in summer, the traction is so good. Very confidence inspiring.
They make a significant difference, especially on wet ice and very cold hard-packed snow. On the cold hard snow, you can almost drive around as in summer, the traction is so good. Very confidence inspiring.
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Very confidence inspiring.
Until you need to stop suddenly on a dry highway. Then the confidence goes quickly...
Very confidence inspiring.
Until you need to stop suddenly on a dry highway. Then the confidence goes quickly...
On Ice there is no question that a studded tire is better.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Very confidence inspiring.
Until you need to stop suddenly on a dry highway. Then the confidence goes quickly...
I read somewhere that studding reduces something less than 1% of the contact patch and as such the idea that studs affect dry performance is a myth. I wish I could find that article.
I will agree that all of these ice tires are pretty squishy on dry pavement.
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Very confidence inspiring.
Until you need to stop suddenly on a dry highway. Then the confidence goes quickly...
I read somewhere that studding reduces something less than 1% of the contact patch and as such the idea that studs affect dry performance is a myth. I wish I could find that article.
I will agree that all of these ice tires are pretty squishy on dry pavement.
The swedish tests in my post above also show dry performance of studded tires is close to the same as the studfree winter tires.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
I've never seen a need for studded snow tires, and I live in Buffalo, NY.
I've been running studless tires or regular all season tires with no problem all my life. I've had my fair share of rwd trucks and cars also.
+1 to that. Years ago I tried a brand new set of studded Cooper snow tires on my 2wd Jeep Cherokee. What ever studs didn't fly out, wore down quickly because of the rapidly changing winter conditions in Buffalo.
I believe a set quality snows or studded snows have their place, where horrible winter conditions persist, but for many, a good set of all-seasons will perform the same. It's been my experience that pretty much any tire will loose snow traction performance big time once they're 30-50% worn.
I've never seen a need for studded snow tires, and I live in Buffalo, NY.
I've been running studless tires or regular all season tires with no problem all my life. I've had my fair share of rwd trucks and cars also.
+1 to that. Years ago I tried a brand new set of studded Cooper snow tires on my 2wd Jeep Cherokee. What ever studs didn't fly out, wore down quickly because of the rapidly changing winter conditions in Buffalo.
I believe a set quality snows or studded snows have their place, where horrible winter conditions persist, but for many, a good set of all-seasons will perform the same. It's been my experience that pretty much any tire will loose snow traction performance big time once they're 30-50% worn.
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Originally Posted By: mva
The swedish tests in my post above also show dry performance of studded tires is close to the same as the studfree winter tires.
I wouldn't believe all you read. Try it yourself in the real world then make a decision.
The swedish tests in my post above also show dry performance of studded tires is close to the same as the studfree winter tires.
I wouldn't believe all you read. Try it yourself in the real world then make a decision.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Very confidence inspiring.
Until you need to stop suddenly on a dry highway. Then the confidence goes quickly...
...as with any winter tire when compared to a summer tire.
Studs are there for ice, or ice-like conditions (meaning hard packed snow counts). On slush, snow, wet or dry conditions the studs do nothing for you. On the other hand, except for potentially marking up the pavement and making noise they don't do any harm either.
If you drive on a lot of glare ice, studs are the only thing that really works. Studless "ice tires" may be far better than all seasons, and somewhat better than general purpose winter tires, but they still don't actually have much grip. Those same "ice tires" are at a larger disadvantage in the wet/dry than typical studded snows because of all of the design optimizations which went into making a studless tire that works on ice.
Winter is different for everyone. In some areas we deal with that special peanut-butter slop when they salt instead of plow. That stuff will clog up ANY tire. Those with a lot of freeze/thaw cycles may see a lot of ice while those who stay below 0F all winter have lots of grip on "squeaky snow" and don't see much ice. Places that don't clear snow and drive on snow-packed roads for months have different needs than those who see dry/wet pavement after snow-clearing most of the winter too.
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Very confidence inspiring.
Until you need to stop suddenly on a dry highway. Then the confidence goes quickly...
...as with any winter tire when compared to a summer tire.
Studs are there for ice, or ice-like conditions (meaning hard packed snow counts). On slush, snow, wet or dry conditions the studs do nothing for you. On the other hand, except for potentially marking up the pavement and making noise they don't do any harm either.
If you drive on a lot of glare ice, studs are the only thing that really works. Studless "ice tires" may be far better than all seasons, and somewhat better than general purpose winter tires, but they still don't actually have much grip. Those same "ice tires" are at a larger disadvantage in the wet/dry than typical studded snows because of all of the design optimizations which went into making a studless tire that works on ice.
Winter is different for everyone. In some areas we deal with that special peanut-butter slop when they salt instead of plow. That stuff will clog up ANY tire. Those with a lot of freeze/thaw cycles may see a lot of ice while those who stay below 0F all winter have lots of grip on "squeaky snow" and don't see much ice. Places that don't clear snow and drive on snow-packed roads for months have different needs than those who see dry/wet pavement after snow-clearing most of the winter too.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Disgree.
Well only for the first 20-50% of tire life..
The new tires that have traction compounds in the tread for the first 20-50% (depending on brand) work better than studs IMO.
The tire tests I've seen disagree with you. In this Norwegian test from 2009, all the name-brand studded tires outperformed the best studless tires on ice. Average stopping distance of the best studless tire (Michelin X-Ice) was 25% longer than that of the best studded tire (Nokian Hak7). Even the cheap Nanking studded tire beat the X-Ice by a small margin in that test.
2009 Norwegian Winter Tire Test
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Plus studs to wear down once you run them on bare pavement so they loose their effectiveness.
This seems to happen to tires on the back of a FWD car, and on cars that are driven very conservatively. I've found that mildly aggressive cornering wears the rubber down more than the stud and keeps the studs sharp.
Disgree.
Well only for the first 20-50% of tire life..
The new tires that have traction compounds in the tread for the first 20-50% (depending on brand) work better than studs IMO.
The tire tests I've seen disagree with you. In this Norwegian test from 2009, all the name-brand studded tires outperformed the best studless tires on ice. Average stopping distance of the best studless tire (Michelin X-Ice) was 25% longer than that of the best studded tire (Nokian Hak7). Even the cheap Nanking studded tire beat the X-Ice by a small margin in that test.
2009 Norwegian Winter Tire Test
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Plus studs to wear down once you run them on bare pavement so they loose their effectiveness.
This seems to happen to tires on the back of a FWD car, and on cars that are driven very conservatively. I've found that mildly aggressive cornering wears the rubber down more than the stud and keeps the studs sharp.
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