2011 Audi S4 with 3.0L TSI Supercharged

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I just placed an order for an Audi S4 with the 3.0 Liter direct injected engine with factory supercharger. Audi pays for the first oil change at 5000 miles, and then recommends one every 10,000 miles afterward. I will be changing it myself after the first free one, probably at 5000 miles again, and sending in an oil sample.

It looks like it specs VW 502.00 in 5W-40 (preferred), 5W-30, or 0W-40. I think the Audi dealers use Castrol SLX Professional, which isn't available to individuals as far as I can tell, and does not seem to test very well. My preference would be the Pennzoil Platinum European Formula (if I can find it reasonably priced) or Mobil 0W-40. I would like to use German Castrol, but it doesn't meet the viscosity requirements. I know technically it would probably be fine, but I don't want to have to worry about my warranty.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
 
I run Amsoil euro 5-40 in my VR6 Jetta. I go about 13k on an oil change (10k recommended) and I have no issues. I know I'll likely get flogged for going that long. Oh well. It's got 124k on it right now.

I haven't done an oil sample yet. But it always comes out looking clean, dark, but clean.

I also run about 8 autoX sessions each season too. Beyond that it's mostly hwy. So under 100 miles of that oil change are "severe".

Perhaps I'll do a sample this time.

Enjoy the S4!
 
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Hi,
Sunstealer - FWIW the SLX Professional range is excellent and has been formulated for the VW Group - it is at least the equal of GC. Use the viscosity mandated for the ambient range you expect to encounter

As for OCIs - I recommend following the Warranty requirements to the letter! When in Germany this year I was given some data from very reliable sources that suggests that shortening the OCIs and/or using non-Approved lubricants may affect intake deposits in a negative way
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Sunstealer - FWIW the SLX Professional range is excellent and has been formulated for the VW Group - it is at least the equal of GC. Use the viscosity mandated for the ambient range you expect to encounter

As for OCIs - I recommend following the Warranty requirements to the letter! When in Germany this year I was given some data from very reliable sources that suggests that shortening the OCIs and/or using non-Approved lubricants may affect intake deposits in a negative way
First I'd like to say that I know you're right about VW/Audi warranty and how much of a stickler they can be. There is however quite a large list of approved oils for the 502.00 spec. Amsoil is not one of them only because they don't care to pay VW the big bucks to get it tested. It does however meet the specs. There are/were a few examples that I know of that Amsoil had no recommendation for. They didn't make an oil to the right spec, so they didn't recommend one. They are IMO very conservative when it comes to recommending oil for a particular application. In the case of Amsoil euro 5-40 they DO NOT recommend an extended drain interval. Again, it is a conservative company.

But now I want to ask how intake deposits can be affected by changing the oil too soon?

I've also read a post regarding VW/Audi warranty from a certified VW mechanic that said he has replaced engines when he knew and the customer admitted they used the wrong oil and VW still paid for it under warranty.
 
With Audi recommending a 10,000 mile oil change, for peace of mind, I use an oil extractor and change the oil at the mid-way point.

I wish Pennzoil Platinum European formula was sold over the counter, but ....
 
Hi,
nuskool - You asked me this;
"But now I want to ask how intake deposits can be affected by changing the oil too soon?"

I cannot go any further on this matter except to say that this is one factor being researched by all of the parties concerned.

My advice FWIW? - stick to what the engines manufacturer recommends!
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Sunstealer - FWIW the SLX Professional range is excellent and has been formulated for the VW Group - it is at least the equal of GC. Use the viscosity mandated for the ambient range you expect to encounter



Doug, I respect you tons, but you are going to have to explain this statement to me a bit better.....

We all know that the TBN of the SLX oils is in the 5-6 range. For a gasser, how can this support 10k OCI's?

GC's TBN is in the high 11's.

I use SLX in my VW TDI and think it is completely awesome for a diesel, but have my serious doubts about using it in my VW Passat 2.0T where petrol dilution is a big issue. GC is my oil of choice for the Passat...and when I roll it into the dealer, it is getting Syntec 5w40, a very nice second choice.
 
The low TBN was my concern with the SLX as well, for 10K changes at least.

I like Amsoil and used it in my diesel truck for years with a bypass filter and 25K changes. I just hate that they don't pay up for the manufacturer's ratings. I think they would sell enough extra to pay for it in many cases.
 
Hi,
BigJohn - As has been stated here before - by others more competent than I - the TBN of the latest lubricants reflects the changing technologies and the chemistry now at play

In general terms (in the past) as the TBN increases so does the SA level - this was due in large to the oil's additive composition and the chemistry used. High TBNs were largely caused/needed by/due to the fuel compositions of the time - their high sulphur content! Generally TBN levels above about 10 caused SA levels above around 1. SA at undesirable levels is a cause of accellerated wear in engines - especially petrol engines

In effect then the lowest sensible SA levels were attained by low TBN lubricants. Today we are at the cusp of new additives that enable low TBNs and all of the advantages flowing from this

The rate of TBN depletion is not linear (IME with diesel engines at least) and I always used the TBN/TAN "see-saw" to confirm a real TBN in my UOAs. I believe that the latest low TBN lubricants will have a very good rate of TBN retention

It should be remembered that the Euro emission controls have been systematically upgraded over a very long time and they are very experienced in marrying up their technologies. ACEA has seen to this - unlike perhaps the API. Some controls commenced in the 1970s

That said, the Professional SLX lubricant range is a product of Castrol and the VW Groups research and development programme. This has been going on for around 20 years now. Having spoken with some of their Senior Engineers in Germany I have no doubt that they are on the right tram!

High levels of fuel dilution in DI petrol engines first appeared in the late 1950s with the mechanically injected 300SL Gullwing. This was primarily caused by "conservative" driving styles by the purchaser. These cars later had port injection

Very high levels of fuel dilution (at levels BITOG people would disbelieve) have been encountered in field testing but no serious diminution of engine life has been detected

Of course if this vehicle (Thread) were mine I would be undertaking a sensible UOA programme as I usually do to ensure that I know what was going on for me - in my application

While other lubricants may do the job to a greater or lessor degree I would default to the Approved and Listed lubricant choice!
 
Doug, I have read your posts and learned a lot about these topics, one thing I wondered, with fuel dilution being prone to those engines as well as the US' [censored] gasoline; do these new low TBN oils hold up as well Stateside as opposed to Europe where a lot of the testing is done?
 
http://www.buypennzoilultra.com/index.cfm

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I would use what Audi uses. Our Audi dealer uses M1 0w40 for force fed engines.

I am comfortable with that. I never ran the full 10k though. Audi changed it under their program about every 6-7k. Told us we would get 5 changes for free and could use them at any interval 10k or less.
 
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Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Doug, I have read your posts and learned a lot about these topics, one thing I wondered, with fuel dilution being prone to those engines as well as the US' [censored] gasoline; do these new low TBN oils hold up as well Stateside as opposed to Europe where a lot of the testing is done?


I'm not Doug, but this sounds similar to the situation being discussed in BMW camps about LL-04. LL-04 is no "better" than LL-01, but mandates low SA and a number of other factors of environmental concern (as opposed to pure lubrication concern). LL-04 is recommended outside of NA for all BMW engines but can only be used in diesels in NA. I believe there are references to accelerated engine wear and unacceptable oil performance using LL-04 in NA where ethanol is used, but I don't have any bookmarked. (And it's worth noting that I'm referring to E10, not E85 here).

Soooo.... This would lead me to believe that perhaps the low SA bandwagon should be very cautiously adopted in NA if you are making up your own recommendations and not following manufacturer recommendations in the market in which you reside.

That's purely my opinion, however. I have not conducted extensive research on the topic. It should be kept in mind that Doug resides in Australia and has regular contact with European engineers. For good or bad, NA fuel (ethanol), emissions regulations (no lean burn mode on DI engines) and, unfortunately, CAFE (lower viscosity) make manufacturers suggest different courses of action.

I think I'll echo Doug when I say that if it were mine, I'd be going half interval or so, regardless of the oil. That is assuming you want to pamper it and enter into long-term ownership and not just lease it and dump it. Even if you want to do the latter, respect the next owner and take care of it.
 
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Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Doug, I have read your posts and learned a lot about these topics, one thing I wondered, with fuel dilution being prone to those engines as well as the US' [censored] gasoline; do these new low TBN oils hold up as well Stateside as opposed to Europe where a lot of the testing is done?


I'm not Doug, but this sounds similar to the situation being discussed in BMW camps about LL-04. LL-04 is no "better" than LL-01, but mandates low SA and a number of other factors of environmental concern (as opposed to pure lubrication concern). LL-04 is recommended outside of NA for all BMW engines but can only be used in diesels in NA. I believe there are references to accelerated engine wear and unacceptable oil performance using LL-04 in NA where ethanol is used, but I don't have any bookmarked. (And it's worth noting that I'm referring to E10, not E85 here).

Soooo.... This would lead me to believe that perhaps the low SA bandwagon should be very cautiously adopted in NA if you are making up your own recommendations and not following manufacturer recommendations in the market in which you reside.

That's purely my opinion, however. I have not conducted extensive research on the topic. It should be kept in mind that Doug resides in Australia and has regular contact with European engineers. For good or bad, NA fuel (ethanol), emissions regulations (no lean burn mode on DI engines) and, unfortunately, CAFE (lower viscosity) make manufacturers suggest different courses of action.

I think I'll echo Doug when I say that if it were mine, I'd be going half interval or so, regardless of the oil. That is assuming you want to pamper it and enter into long-term ownership and not just lease it and dump it. Even if you want to do the latter, respect the next owner and take care of it.





Actually BMW LL-04 is not to be used for petrol engines in Australia either.
http://forums.eurocca.net/showthread.php...gines-In-AUS-NZ
 
'High levels of fuel dilution in DI petrol engines first appeared in the late 1950s with the mechanically injected 300SL Gullwing. This was primarily caused by "conservative" driving styles by the purchaser. These cars later had port injection'

The Gull Wing and it's later relative the Roadster had DI - the 300 series sedans etc had port injection .
 
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I think this discussion could lead to different decisions around 502 applications.

I'll tell ya....I am very tempted to run either SLX or ESP for 5k miles in my Passat next OCI and get it analyzed. I am very curious.


Looking at another 507 oil..... Doug, your comments are being backed up. We know that this oil also has a low TBN, yet if you read below.....you will see that it is recommended for 502 applications. (yeah I know there is a difference between recommended and builder approved)


Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Emission System Protection

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 fully synthetic motor oil is made with a proprietary blend of high performance components formulated to be fully compatible with the latest Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF's) and Gasoline Catalytic Converters (CAT's). Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is designed to provide exceptional cleaning power, wear protection and overall engine protection.
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 motor oil has been expertly engineered to help prolong the life and maintain the efficiency of Car Emission Reduction Systems in both diesel and gasoline powered automobiles.

Benefits of Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 motor oil meets or exceeds the requirements of many leading industry and car manufacturers' standards required for newer modern diesel and gasoline powered passenger car engines.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry specifications:

* ACEA C2, C3
* ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
* API SM/SL
* API CF

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 fully synthetic motor oil has the following builder approvals:

* BMW Longlife 04
* Mercedes-Benz MB-Approval 229.31 and 229.51
* Volkswagen (Gasoline/Diesel) 504 00 / 507 00
* Porsche C30
* PSA B712290
* PSA D - Level 3
* PSA E - Level 3
* AvtoVAZ Group “Luxe”
* Chrysler MS-11106
* AAE Standard STO-003-05, Group B6

Also recommended for use in applications requiring:

* JASO DL 1-08
* Volkswagen (Gasoline) 502 00 / 503 00 / 503 01
* Volkswagen* (Diesel) 505 01/ 505 00 / 506 00 / 506 01

*All VW engines with the exception of Unit-Injector/Pump-Duse TDI without Longlife Service and without DPF between 1999-2003 and R5/V10-TDi before model year 2006.


Interesting that their 5w40 only carries two approvals (and no recommendations)....

Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40:

* Approved against MB 229.51

* Approved against MB 229.31
 
The new status quo should wreek havoc at autoparts counters, where the staff already struggle with the most basic concepts, and make recommendations based on deranged speculation and hearsay.
 
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