PP PU RP EDGE 5W30 UOA's Dropping OUT 30 Grade ?

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Fallguy

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I have looked at many 5w30 UOA's and seams like the majority on these oils wind up being below 9.3 which is the cut off for the low end of a 30 grade.

Talking when they have been ran 5k plus miles and know there are exceptions but dont many many UOA's show them below the 9.3 after being ran.

Dont get me wrong, great oils just have noticed this. I want my 30 grade side to stay in 30 grade.
 
Most people say they shear to a 20 grade, seems the 20 grade oils stay a 20 grade. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems though.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Most people say they shear to a 20 grade, seems the 20 grade oils stay a 20 grade. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems though.


Dont ALL Oils except the 20 grade drop a grade? 50 = 40, 40 = 30, and 30 = 20, with just about any "W" number?
 
Originally Posted By: Fallguy
I want my 30 grade side to stay in 30 grade.

Then you need to look at oils that are formulated at the top range of the 30-grade. These would be high mileage oils for example, such as M1 HM 10w-30 or HM 5w-30. GC also. But these oils will not be energy conserving as a result.
 
Valv Synpower seams to stay in range and is energy conserving (I think ?)

Regards.
 
Originally Posted By: Fallguy
I want my 30 grade side to stay in 30 grade.


Could you explain us why you want that?

Would that be OK with you if the regulators move the 30 limit to 9 instead of 9.3? Few decimals won't blow your engine.

There is nothing scientific beyond that limit, that is just here to help people buy their oil. Otherwise, you would have to look at the HTHS, TBN, 40C vis, 100C vis, etc values to find your oil.

This shearing has been taken in account while designing the engine, so you have some margins to play with.

If you are still not comfortable with that, follow Quattro Pete advice and choose an oil which start in the middle of the range instead of the lower part.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Most people say they shear to a 20 grade, seems the 20 grade oils stay a 20 grade. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems though.


Since most 20wt oils have a HTHS vis of 2.6cP which is the minimum for a SAE 20wt oil, consiquently most 20wt oils will also will shear out of grade.

It's the percentage of shear that is important not the resulting figure. Most auto manufacturers allow a certain amount of shear before the oil is condemned. Porsche allows 16% of the factory spec' M1 0W-40.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Most people say they shear to a 20 grade, seems the 20 grade oils stay a 20 grade. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems though.


You really think that ?

I'd rather run a oil that has some viscosity to it.
Call it old fashioned but the only reason people left the 40 weights was because back in the day they were prone to sludgeing up due to cruddy additive suspensions and packages.

Today that isn't a problem and I'll stay with the extra viscosity due to the peace of mind it gives me.
 
Not sure what data you are looking at. Whenever I’ve looked at shear results from the UOAs here, I’ve found most dino 5W30s shear to less than 9.3 while most full synthetics stay above 9.3.

In a quick look over the last several pages of 5W30 PP, PU, Edge, and RP UOAs, I found 4 of 14 sheared to less than 9.3. That’s less than 30% and includes one with high fuel dilution. And 2 of those less than 9.3 were Edge, which is only about 9.8 at the start.
 
From what I've seen, it seems to be the conventional 5w-30 oils that shear down to a 20 wt. Never noticed it with the synthetics (except the wide viscosity ranges). I think any oil that contains a lot of viscosity index improvers is going to shear quite a bit.
 
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Not sure what data you are looking at. Whenever I’ve looked at shear results from the UOAs here, I’ve found most dino 5W30s shear to less than 9.3 while most full synthetics stay above 9.3.

In a quick look over the last several pages of 5W30 PP, PU, Edge, and RP UOAs, I found 4 of 14 sheared to less than 9.3. That’s less than 30% and includes one with high fuel dilution. And 2 of those less than 9.3 were Edge, which is only about 9.8 at the start.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1902754

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1931561

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2044708

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1931561

Easily came up with these in about 3 min.

I understand dino dropping out of grade but dropping out of grade on a synthetic does not cut it in my book.
 
Last edited:
While I share your dissatifaction when oils shear out of grade in some applications, I don't think you were being fair when you said (in your original post) the majority of those synthetic 5W30s wind up below 9.3. Just above you posted 3 instances in the last 5 months where the synthetic 5W30s sheared to less than 9.3. But to support your original statement that the majority of 5W30 synthetics from those manufacturers shear to less than 9.3 you need to look at a representative sample of the applicable UOAs.

I looked back at several pages of UOAs for the oils you targeted, and found 14 of the most recent UOAs of PP, PU, Edge, and RP. Less than 30% sheared below 9.3. Not a majority even if those results might be considered less than satisfactory.
 
Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Most people say they shear to a 20 grade, seems the 20 grade oils stay a 20 grade. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems though.


Dont ALL Oils except the 20 grade drop a grade? 50 = 40, 40 = 30, and 30 = 20, with just about any "W" number?


Dont ALL Oils except the 20 grade drop a grade? 50 = 40, 40 = 30, and 30 = 20, with just about any "W" number?

This hasnt really been addressed. Only cP numbers.
 
5-20s are tough oils with rigorous specs.
They usually stay in grade . Also, since they are thinner to begin with, they are not as likely to shear [they are already 'sheared', kinda].
I looked at various UOAs of 5-30s, and do not see a pattern of shearing to a 20 with full synth oils. Sometimes with long term dinos, though.
 
Anyone see Valvoline Synpower dropping out of grade much, I dont, unless you look at over 8k miles as the TBN may not be as high but seams to stay in grade
 
 
Last edited:
Fallguy, you seem to be tooting Valvoline's UOA about as much as you are making these shearing claims. The modern trend is for thinner oils that improve MPG, and so it is natural for oils that fit that category to shear more than those that are "thicker."
 
Like Quaker State and have ran it for years and like what I see in Ultra for Boron & Moly but just seams to shear much more than I think a synthetic should.

Pennzoil Ultra starts at 10.3 cSt but seams to consistently shear well out of the 30 grade.

Synpower is 10.5 cSt so only slightly higher but seams to consistently stay well in the grade.

Know thinner is better, especially for start up as a 0w is even thicker than a 30 grade at start up but would like my oil to stay in the manufacturers range (5w30) and not be sliding into the 5w20 range without being specked for it.

Know it would likely have no real world result either way but thought synthetics were supposed to be more shear resistant than this, maybe that was more true of IV basestock days.
 
Originally Posted By: Fallguy
All in all here are the Ultra's out of grade that were easy to find. How many more does one need to believe there is a pattern here?


Better check the accuracy of your data. Of the six "Ultra's out of grade", there are really only two.

Three of the Ultra UOAs you list are the same UOA, and two of the "Ultra" UOAs are Castrol Edge.
 
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