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#2051624 - 10/19/10 03:24 PM High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series
fordrenegade Offline


Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: winston-salem,nc
I have been having some trouble with sludge in my diesel fleet and the oil manufacturer being Citgo says all of my trucks have a high soot level causing the oil sludge . I have lost 2 engines already out of 30 plus on the road. The oil they were selling me in bulk was bad to foam and even looked milky or cloudy. I have since switched to Mobile delvac 1300 plus and my engines are cleaning up nicely and none of them are EGR engines. I dont feel that with the fleet of trucks averaging at most a gallon of oil per week that the soot is the problem like they say. I feel that it something they Citgo and there engineers are not telling me. does anyone have any ideas on this.

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#2051632 - 10/19/10 03:31 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: Houston, Texas
what are the soot levels? Did you have the oil analyzed? I wouldn't use citgo oil use something like chevron or rotella.
Citgo isn't even an american company.
_________________________
2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.


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#2051635 - 10/19/10 03:33 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4173
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
requesting move to either HDEO-diesel trucks or UOA forum-I would have a VOA/Virgin Oil Analysis done on the new/unused oil, and have UOAs done on the engines that are having trouble. There are sponsors on this site such as Blackstone that can help you. I've never personally seen Citgo diesel motor oil around these parts, myself.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2051638 - 10/19/10 03:34 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
fordrenegade Offline


Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: winston-salem,nc
Thats what the company had a contract with them for years. The soot level is >11 and off their charts. We have switched to Mobile delvac 1300 plus oil and we tried rotella and it was only able to run 10000 miles safely in our road trucks.

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#2051661 - 10/19/10 03:49 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
fordrenegade Offline


Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: winston-salem,nc
We have had oil analysis done on the oil new and with 8000 miles on it new it meets cj4 specs at 8 miles they cant even tell anything other than soot is high and cant get any readings at 100 degrees celsius.

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#2051666 - 10/19/10 03:59 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4880
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
fordrenegade - What DDEC version are your engines?

Typically DD Series 60 have a lubricant condemnation level at 35%
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2051673 - 10/19/10 04:07 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: Doug Hillary]
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1707
Loc: Houston, Texas
Does it smoke a lot out the stacks? Most trucks I see these days have hardly any smoke comming out at all. I assume your air filter is ok.
_________________________
2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.


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#2051697 - 10/19/10 04:25 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: Doug Hillary]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4880
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
my error - not 35% - the condemation figure is 3.5% when using lubricants CH-4 and later

In my DDEC 2, 3 and 4 engines I regularly got to 40kkms (25k miles) when using a mineral oil before soot reache 3% or Fe was at its condemnation level of 150ppm



Edited by Doug Hillary (10/19/10 04:30 PM)
Edit Reason: Accuracy - spelling
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2051806 - 10/19/10 05:48 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
Rob_Roy Offline


Registered: 10/26/08
Posts: 846
Loc: Northern, NY
There is no way that a non-EGR diesel should be creating condemnation-levels of soot in 8000 miles. Either something is seriously wrong with the fuel/air systems on the trucks, or the oil is the wrong product and/or compromised. If the engines are "cleaning up" on Delvac, it does seem that the oil was the problem. Get some UOA's on the Delvac, preferably from a reputable oil testing company.
_________________________
2014 Subaru Outback
2012 Subaru Legacy
1999 Ford F350, V10 workhorse

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#2051817 - 10/19/10 05:59 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: Rob_Roy]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4880
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
Rob_Roy - That is my conclusion too. The DDEC variants do have diffent performance levels regarding combustion performance. IME DDEC 2 was the best performer. Several years ago I inspected some sooted Series 60 engine as a Consultant to their Client. The high soot levels had produced very severe sludging requiring a partial teardown to cleanup

The reason was the Client's use of a non-compliant lubricant

Delvac 1300 is an excellent product with an exceptional cleanliness performance
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2051959 - 10/19/10 08:12 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
mrichards Offline


Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 50
Loc: Milan, Michigan
I have had similar problems with those series 60's, we switched over to D-A Excelon EBS M which is up to Detroit Diesel PowerGuard 93K214 specs. That took care of the soot problems along with giving us 15,000 mile OCI's. This is on a fleet of 20 Michigan Gravel trains. It worked for us maybe it will help you. After a couple oil changes out soot levels were at 0.4%


Edited by mrichards (10/19/10 08:14 PM)
_________________________
08' Ford F150 82K 4.2 V6
12' Chrysler T&C 22k 3.6 V6

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#2052333 - 10/20/10 07:50 AM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
fordrenegade Offline


Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: winston-salem,nc
All of the trucks in my fleet are 2000 to 2005 models and non-egr and it is very unlikely that they all can fuel/air systems giving the same problem at the same time. The trucks are all international also. They were all wal-mart trucks that we purchase as they come off lease and they have been well serviced using mobile delvac 1300 oil.

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#2052606 - 10/20/10 01:13 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4880
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
fordrenegade - This Thread should be in the Trucker's Form!

As I asked earlier, what DDEC series are these engines equipped with?

Were they on Delvac 1300 before you took them over? Did the high soot levels suddenly occur? If so when? What fuel are you using, etc etc?

As I said before, this would be best dealt with on the Trucker's Forum
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2052613 - 10/20/10 01:19 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
Doug Hillary Offline


Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 4880
Loc: Airlie Beach Australia
Hi,
this Thread appears in two places - it should be in the Truckers's Forum?
_________________________
Regards
Doug

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#2052838 - 10/20/10 05:02 PM Re: High soot levels in 12.7l detroit 60 series [Re: fordrenegade]
fordrenegade Offline


Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 17
Loc: winston-salem,nc
The trucks all have a new air filter installed around 30000 miles and just a few smoke but only if in hard pulling situations which would be normal. DDEC does not show on the engine tags on these trucks unless it is hidden.

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