Mobil 1 ??? - 6,000 Miles - 2008 Mercedes C300

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2008 Mercedes-Benz C300. (3.0 liter V6).

On the factory fill (Shell Synthetic 5w30) a couple years ago I went 13,000 miles. I regret that now, but hopefully it did ok. It was the approved interval.

The last two oil changes I thought my dealer had used the wrong Formula M ESP (ESP for protetion of DIESEL emissions). Many dealers are using this incorrect diesel oil, spec 229.51 in GAS cars like mine.

The Gas spec 299.5. The close numbers don't mean they can be used interchangeably and I have confirmed that with manufacturer, though they don't seem to stay on top of that with dealers.

Well, my dealer claims though my car doesn't have the ESP version, but actually another Formula M that is approved and that you don't see on store shelves. Confusing isn't it? TWO Formula Ms, one ESP, one not.

Here is the spec sheet for the non-ESP one, it is approved:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/glxxenpvlmomobil1_formula_m_5w-40.pdf

However, how do I know the dealer used this one when so many dealers have been putting the ESP one into EVERY car to save hassle of carrying two oils and admit this to customers.

Could my oil analysis shed any light? Well, here it is from Blackstone.

One thing I know for sure is that it is 5w40, just don't know if it is the ESP version or the approved non-ESP version.

Miles on OIL - 5,999
MILES ON UNIT - 29,671

Aluminum - 4
Chromium - 1
Iron - 16
Copper - 5
Lead - 1
Tin - 0
Molybdenum - 84
Nickel - 1
Maganese - 5
Silver 0 -
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 2
Boron 120
Silicon 11
Sodium 12
Calcium - 1722
Magnesium 42
Phosphorus 887
Zinc 1032
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity 210F - 71.7
cSt Viscosity 100C - 13.39
Flashpoint in F - 405
Fuel - less than 0.5%
Antifreeze - 0
Water - 0
Insolubles - 0.1
TBN - 3.0


Not a bad result I guess? Iron is a few clicks above average, but I suspect nothing too alarming?

Should I feel pretty confident with the engine?

I may take in my own Mobil 1 0w40 at the next change in a couple thousand miles so I don't have to worry about which 5w40 they are using anymore.

Thanks for any thoughts. I'm new here. I have read a couple dozen reports from other members. One thing seems clear, most engines seem to bring back very similar results, don't they? Sure, different additives, but the wear seems very similar from unit to unit after break in.
 
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First off, news to me that your MB came from the factory with 5W-30 Shell.

My sister owns the same car as yours and has hers serviced by the largest MB dealer in the DFW area. They use the 5W-40 ESP oils in the diesel MB, but they use only Mobil 1 0W-40 in the gasoline MB vehicles.

If in doubt, I would use the Mobil 1 0W-40 without any hesitation.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
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First off, news to me that your MB came from the factory with 5W-30 Shell.

My sister owns the same car as yours and has hers serviced by the largest MB dealer in the DFW area. They use the 5W-40 ESP oils in the diesel MB, but they use only Mobil 1 0W-40 in the gasoline MB vehicles.

If in doubt, I would use the Mobil 1 0W-40 without any hesitation.


Thanks Johnny - Good to hear your sister's dealer is using two oils. Some dealers are just lazy and trying to carry only one I guess.

MB and Shell have a long term deal to supply lubricants for the factory. EXCEPT AMG engines. They come with Mobil 1.

I think you are right. I will haul in my own Mobil 1 0w40. Even Mobil seems to suggest it is more advanced than the 5w40 my dealer claims to use. It probably saves them a few dollars. Much like in conventional oils, Mobil has one they give to dealers that they don't offer directly to consumers, and the consumer one has more additives.

Mobil shows the TBN on 0w40 Mobil 1 starts out at 11.3 and the one the dealers try to use (but the correct gas version) starts with just 8.
 
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Originally Posted By: Eddie
Just try to make sure that the oil you bring in gets into your vehicle.


Good point. They seem very cool about me bringing my own though. They say that is fine.

Honestly, in my non-Mercedes I do my own oil changes. I enjoy it. It's just nice for resale to have everything look official.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I might add, no matter what anyone tells you, continue to use genuine OEM MB filters.


You can really see the quality in them. It's a Mann product. Even when I someday stop going to the dealer, I'll be sure to get the genuine oil filters. Good call.
 
I second that. The special oil filters from MB use a synthetic fleece material that is designed to hold more particulates for extended drain intervals.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I second that. The special oil filters from MB use a synthetic fleece material that is designed to hold more particulates for extended drain intervals.


I think the insoluble number from the Blackstone report show they work too.
 
Look at my 08 rabbit UOAs. The low SAPS oils are not optimum, but IMO it is safe to say that they are fairly decent at wear control. It is in TBN retention where I see an issue (due to fuel sulfur).
Of course, if you were doing 10k mile OCIs, Id be VERY concerned, but I would not be concerend with what was used to date.

That said, Id move to the right oil, M1 0w-40.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Look at my 08 rabbit UOAs. The low SAPS oils are not optimum, but IMO it is safe to say that they are fairly decent at wear control. It is in TBN retention where I see an issue (due to fuel sulfur).
Of course, if you were doing 10k mile OCIs, Id be VERY concerned, but I would not be concerend with what was used to date.

That said, Id move to the right oil, M1 0w-40.



Thanks. So you think the analysis shows no way the dealer used the "approved," Formula M that is 5w40? Such an oil does exist (a Formula M that is NOT ESP). It seems limited to dealer applications now (probably because on store shelves people would confuse it with the ESP product).

However, it also starts out at a lower TBN than M1 0w40, which is why I still want to move away going forward.

You see the TBN was already down to 3. According to Mobil 1, the non-ESP version I hope they used starting out at 8, so it decreased a lot in 6,000 miles. Sadly, last year, this same oil I had ran 10,500. At the time I didn't know ti wasn't Mobil 1 0w40 in the car.
 
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Our low SAPS (M1 5w-30 ESP VW 504/507) oils went to 1.x after 5000 miles. At a TBN of 3, I would still be considering using the low SAPS oil... Ca could be higher, but P/Zn is farily stout. It could well be a 229.5 oil, not a .51, Id think Zn would be lower.
 
I think I'm going to buy a bottle of the ESP (diesel) version 229.51 spec. I'm going to send virgin sample to Blackstone, then I *might* be able to determine definitively.

For example, if the ESP doesn't have Moly, I would know.
 
I'm pretty sure now this was formula m, but NOT the ESP diesel version.

There is a gas version too.

Look at the viscosity. 13.39 @ 100 C.

0w40 shears more.

Would that be reason to use this one instead or are the additional additives in the 0w40 outperform that. Thanks
 
I just got quote on 55 gal drums of both M1 Formula M 5w40 and M1 0w40.

They were almost identical. Pennies difference.

So why would dealers choose the Formula M ? Maybe it's not inferior?

Maybe they do it on climate?
 
Originally Posted By: Ayrton

Maybe they do it on climate?

Wouldn't make much sense. From an ambient temp perspective, 0w-40 can be used anywhere where 5w-40 can be used and more.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Ayrton

Maybe they do it on climate?

Wouldn't make much sense. From an ambient temp perspective, 0w-40 can be used anywhere where 5w-40 can be used and more.


I just did note the owners manual said to choose viscosity based on the low temperature.

Why did Formula M 5w40 ever come into existence? I wish I had known about the Mobil Q&A and asked that.

I'm going to wonder forever. :)
 
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