fram extended gaurd any good?

[trabuccomlfrd]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I should add that I find the most striking difference between the two to be the way each manufacturer describes their filter: Mobil 1 uses the correct terminology (contaminants); while Fram just calls it "dirt."

That speaks volumes to me about the intended market for each.

-Spyder

the fram hold 28grams according to the box, how much does your m1 hold?


I have no idea as I don't have the box in front of me; though I don't see the relevance. You've finally provided something factual, I'll give you that much. Of course, that was only after you were called out on the disinformation you originally posted (and which others then chose to parrot).

-Spyder

you dont see the relevance? when i buy a filter that is the most important factor. please explain the mis info i posted earlier because as far as im concerned the extended guard is a better filter than the m1 or the bosch witch is a re-branded purolator, in my opinion when you by an m1 you are paying for the name

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd

i called it paper because compared to the extended guard it is part paper


Right. "part paper" = "made out of paper." Slight difference. What you posted was simply false, no matter how you try and explain it away. Or better yet, let me just throw your exact words right back at you:

"also the mobile one doesnt use synthetic media it is paper vs the extended guard with does use synthetic media."

This is proven false. Period. Then others parrot this load of horse manure as though it were gospel while you now and explain "what you really meant." Not buying. Stick to facts.

-Spyder

 

[Spyder7]

I also like this line, again from Fram:

* Traps and holds more than double the dirt of leading economy oil filter brands' average.

Wouldn't the leading economy brand be Fram - so their comparison is then based on the "average" of how much "dirt" their own OCOD holds. Yes, it really oozes awesomeness to me.

-Spyder

 

[trabuccomlfrd]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I also like this line, again from Fram:

* Traps and holds more than double the dirt of leading economy oil filter brands' average.

Wouldn't the leading economy brand be Fram - so their comparison is then based on the "average" of how much "dirt" their own OCOD holds. Yes, it really oozes awesomeness to me.

-Spyder

now that is irrelevant to whether the extended guard is better than the m1, witch it is, insulting fram doesnt support your argument.

 

[OVERKILL]

As far as synthetic media goes, FRAM is FAR from the only player at this party, and they are the LAST one to arrive.

(these are NOT my pictures; they were gracefully provided by another member at one point)

Donaldson SYNTEQ media:

Fleetguard Stratapore media:

Also in this class are the AMSOIL EaO filters, Royal Purple filters, and the Toyota TRD filters. There was also a Delco filter, but I cannot remember the name of it.

This is a synthetic glass media.

 

[trabuccomlfrd]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd

i called it paper because compared to the extended guard it is part paper


Right. "part paper" = "made out of paper." Slight difference. What you posted was simply false, no matter how you try and explain it away. Or better yet, let me just throw your exact words right back at you:

"also the mobile one doesnt use synthetic media it is paper vs the extended guard with does use synthetic media."

This is proven false. Period. Then others parrot this load of horse manure as though it were gospel while you now and explain "what you really meant." Not buying. Stick to facts.

-Spyder

sorry for my ignorance on that ONE issue, i dont understand why you dont give it a rest. i have proven my point, the m1 is over priced and isnt as good as the extended guard.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I also like this line, again from Fram:

* Traps and holds more than double the dirt of leading economy oil filter brands' average.

Wouldn't the leading economy brand be Fram - so their comparison is then based on the "average" of how much "dirt" their own OCOD holds. Yes, it really oozes awesomeness to me.

-Spyder



now that is irrelevant to whether the extended guard is better than the m1, witch it is, insulting fram doesnt support your argument.


Nor does your inability to use proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar aid yours.

I'm still awaiting the link to the comparative study showing the superiority of the XG to the M1. If you can't find one to back up your claim, then as far as I'm concerned its about as meaningful as claiming the earth is flat and the center of the universe.

-Spyder

 

[trabuccomlfrd]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I also like this line, again from Fram:

* Traps and holds more than double the dirt of leading economy oil filter brands' average.

Wouldn't the leading economy brand be Fram - so their comparison is then based on the "average" of how much "dirt" their own OCOD holds. Yes, it really oozes awesomeness to me.

-Spyder



now that is irrelevant to whether the extended guard is better than the m1, witch it is, insulting fram doesnt support your argument.


Nor does your inability to use proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar aid yours.

I'm still awaiting the link to the comparative study showing the superiority of the XG to the M1. If you can't find one to back up your claim, then as far as I'm concerned its about as meaningful as claiming the earth is flat and the center of the universe.

-Spyder

unless the m1 holds more "containments" than 28grams, the extended guard is better

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I also like this line, again from Fram:

* Traps and holds more than double the dirt of leading economy oil filter brands' average.

Wouldn't the leading economy brand be Fram - so their comparison is then based on the "average" of how much "dirt" their own OCOD holds. Yes, it really oozes awesomeness to me.

-Spyder



now that is irrelevant to whether the extended guard is better than the m1, witch it is, insulting fram doesnt support your argument.


Nor does your inability to use proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar aid yours.

I'm still awaiting the link to the comparative study showing the superiority of the XG to the M1. If you can't find one to back up your claim, then as far as I'm concerned its about as meaningful as claiming the earth is flat and the center of the universe.

-Spyder

unless the m1 holds more "containments" than 28grams, the extended guard is better


I see. So the only criteria relevant in judging a filter's quality, performance, or suitability is its storage capacity. No need to explain any further. You have, indeed, made your point.

I suppose the fact that many can buy over-sized filters that fit perfectly is a novel idea to you (the over-sized OEM filter for the Celica also fits my Corolla, and holds a lot more "dirt").

Edit: the word you were looking for is "contaminants", and not "containments."

Now I realize why Fram just calls it "dirt."

-Spyder

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I also like this line, again from Fram:

* Traps and holds more than double the dirt of leading economy oil filter brands' average.

Wouldn't the leading economy brand be Fram - so their comparison is then based on the "average" of how much "dirt" their own OCOD holds. Yes, it really oozes awesomeness to me.

-Spyder



now that is irrelevant to whether the extended guard is better than the m1, witch it is, insulting fram doesnt support your argument.


Nor does your inability to use proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar aid yours.

I'm still awaiting the link to the comparative study showing the superiority of the XG to the M1. If you can't find one to back up your claim, then as far as I'm concerned its about as meaningful as claiming the earth is flat and the center of the universe.

-Spyder

unless the m1 holds more "containments" than 28grams, the extended guard is better


Depends on your definition of "better".

The Mobil 1 filter has a 99.2 percent efficiency rating (under SAE J1858 Multi-Pass Efficiency Test).

The Fram filter has a 97% efficiency rating under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.

 

[trabuccomlfrd]

how many microns can the m1 hold

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: trabuccomlfrd
how many microns can the m1 hold


You mean what is the contaminant capacity of the filter?

That varies depending on the size and quantity of the media in the can. Fram's cited 26g value is for the FL1A sized filter. Unless you run that filter (I have two engines that take it) then that number doesn't mean a whole lot.

Mobil does not list a single "contaminant capacity" value likely for this very reason.

 

[OVERKILL]

Essentially it comes down to this:

FRAM has finally made the forray into the synthetic media realm.

HOWEVER

Simply using synthetic media does not automatically make this filter "better" than cellulose or cellulose/synthetic blend filters. Since it is obvious that filters like the PureONE and the Mobil 1 filter have a higher efficiency rating than the FRAM.

One of the main advantages of a synthetic glass style media is increased contaminant holding capacity. However, if you don't have an engine that is dumping copious volumes of insolubles into the oil, then the increased holding capacity may not be relevant to your situation.

It all comes down to application. For a more efficient filter, the Mobil 1 is "better". For increased holding capacity, the FRAM is PROBABLY better.

If you factor in things like the "Ford-style" threaded-end bypass and the like... then filters like the M1 and Royal Purple start to look even better.

 

[OVERKILL]

Found some pics of the FL1A-sized versions of both filters on Supraforum, resized them and here they are:

Extended Guard:

Mobil 1 EP:

And just so we are clear, let us cover our bases again:

Mobil 1 EP filter:
-OCI length: 15,000 miles
-Efficiency: 99.2% Multi-pass
-Bypass style: Threaded-end
-Media type: Synthetic/Cellulose blend
-Contaminant capacity: Unknown
-ADBV style: Silicone

Fram Extended Guard:
-OCI length: 10,000 miles
-Efficiency: 97.0% Multi-pass
-Bypass style: plastic dome-end, part of media support spring
-Media type: Synthetic
-Contaminant capacity: 26g for FL-1A size
-ADBV style: Silcone

 

[Shuttler]

Dirt vs contaminant is definitely the deciding factor in certain circles. Will you sell more filters with contaminant on the box or with the dirt? Especially if you sell to a Joe Who Shops WalMart?

For that reason that the said Joe don't trust no folks who use scientific words for what he refers to as a crock. Was it hyphen or was it dephis that I intentionally forgot to insert into WalMart?

The point is that one can differentiate himself by spending a few bucks and cutting a filter open better than nitpicking on a fellow explorer's spelling or the marketing department choice of words.

I have a FRAM TG2, MC FL-820S and M1 210 that I can donate to a local (PDX area) filter cutter for an anatomic comparison. TG2 and 210 claim to be nearly identical in their filtering efficiency, MC is not anywhere close close in that department, yet proven to get the modulars up to 650 kmiles easily. I wonder if the more efficient filter would be of any benefit? I am also inclined to try a bypass on those engines, but haven't done anything to get there yet.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Shuttler
Dirt vs contaminant is definitely the deciding factor in certain circles. Will you sell more filters with contaminant on the box or with the dirt? Especially if you sell to a Joe Who Shops WalMart?

For that reason that the said Joe don't trust no folks who use scientific words for what he refers to as a crock. Was it hyphen or was it dephis that I intentionally forgot to insert into WalMart?

The point is that one can differentiate himself by spending a few bucks and cutting a filter open better than nitpicking on a fellow explorer's spelling or the marketing department choice of words.

I have a FRAM TG2, MC FL-820S and M1 210 that I can donate to a local (PDX area) filter cutter for an anatomic comparison. TG2 and 210 claim to nearly identical in their filtering efficiency, MC is not anywhere close close in that department, yet proven to get the modulars up to 650 miles easily. I wonder if the more efficient filter would be of any benefit? I am also inclined to try a bypass on those engines, but haven't done anything to get there yet.


I would have let that go. If he hadn't begun by posting false information and then deriving a factual type conclusion from it. And even after being shown his information is false, he clings on to his fallacy and provides nothing to prove his assertion; instead he repeats it over and over as if somehow, by stating it enough, it will indeed become truth.

He's entitled to his opinion, and if he'd phrased it as such, I wouldn't even have responded. He does nobody any favor, though, by trying to pass uninformed opinion off as fact. Thus the tone of my replies.

Overk1ll has provided us the relevant facts and they speak for themselves.

 

[Shuttler]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I would have let that go.

I believe it was an honest attempt on his part. He opened, he saw, he felt. It may have felt as a paper media. That cellulose to paper is like contaminant to dirt. He may be not too scientific, but he put an effort to see it with his own eyes as opposed to many of us who rely on what we are fed.
I just think that ridiculing the opposition is very baracky.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
how good is the fram extended gaurd oil filter compared too the royal purple oil filters/mobil 1 ore the bosh distance plus oil filters


Under what measure? They're all a waste if you're not doing a decent length drain.

Quote:
which one flows the best



Why do you ask? Are you using some really heavy oil that will put your oil pump in relief for an inordinate length of time? Is your engine of some obscure design where a filter can actually alter oil flow?

Quote:
and filters the smalest particles


If you keep them in service long enough, they will get closer to the marketing figures they put on the box or promote.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Shuttler
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I would have let that go.

I believe it was an honest attempt on his part. He opened, he saw, he felt. It may have felt as a paper media. That cellulose to paper is like contaminant to dirt. He may be not too scientific, but he put an effort to see it with his own eyes as opposed to many of us who rely on what we are fed.
I just think that ridiculing the opposition is very baracky.


You're entitled to that opinion. And that's the distinction. You have your opinion and your offering it as that. He had an opinion too, but he tried to pass it off as fact, and in doing so he provided information that was factually incorrect and misleading.

My replies could have been more tactfully worded, but when repeated requests to substantiate a fact that doesn't exist, are repeatedly met with mere repetition of that opinion, passed off repeatedly as fact, it becomes tiresome.

Fortunately another member provided the actual facts, and I'm now thankfully off that merry-go-round.

-Spyder

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
He had an opinion too, but he tried to pass it off as fact,



..but this is an unqualified opinion too. (said in a non-adversarial way). How do you know it to be true? I think it's a presumption that we all have (had) about filters.



Quote:
It (the M1 EP) will also filter smaller particles, and trap particles of any size faster.


Now while it "may" in a comparative way to other filters that are long drain filters, do we really know that it does any better for the 3k type of usage over other offerings?