It's funny that we ran Havoline and Fram filters for DECADES in an entire fleet of trucks and never experienced any issues.
Why Slam the Fram?
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Why not just search. We have all posted dozens (maybe hundreds) of pics of failed Frams. I have several on my site. Fortunately fewer and fewer show up each month. I don't think a single customer came in all month at either shop with a Fram installed.
When you cut open their filter and show them the insides, they learn.
When you cut open their filter and show them the insides, they learn.
Their air filters, at least, are fine. Made as well as you'd expect a paper filter to be, and fit is snug. The XG is also good and, though pricey, there you are at least getting what you paid for.
The rest are just a rip off: bad design, poorly made,, and over priced. Same thing with Champion's new E-core and another filter to avoid. But by the same token, two of the best filters out there (Mobil 1 EP and the similar K&N) are Champion designs. So Fram at least has some company these days in the low end, over-priced segment.
-Spyder
The rest are just a rip off: bad design, poorly made,, and over priced. Same thing with Champion's new E-core and another filter to avoid. But by the same token, two of the best filters out there (Mobil 1 EP and the similar K&N) are Champion designs. So Fram at least has some company these days in the low end, over-priced segment.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's funny that we ran Havoline and Fram filters for DECADES in an entire fleet of trucks and never experienced any issues.
That you know of!!!
It's funny that we ran Havoline and Fram filters for DECADES in an entire fleet of trucks and never experienced any issues.
That you know of!!!
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's funny that we ran Havoline and Fram filters for DECADES in an entire fleet of trucks and never experienced any issues.
That you know of!!!
+1
Who knows how much better those trucks could be running if they never saw a Fram filter.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's funny that we ran Havoline and Fram filters for DECADES in an entire fleet of trucks and never experienced any issues.
That you know of!!!
+1
Who knows how much better those trucks could be running if they never saw a Fram filter.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's funny that we ran Havoline and Fram filters for DECADES in an entire fleet of trucks and never experienced any issues.
I would say perhaps there was one issue that was experienced that you may have overlooked. I doubt that the Fram filters were the cheapest you could have bought for the vehicles.
If I had bought Fram over Wix for taxi fleet maintenance over the years, it would have cost me roughly $100 extra per year. Whether Fram's cheaper construction actually results in failures is certainly open to debate. Some have had problems, some have not.
The price issue is not open to interpretation. I suspect AC Delco filters are no longer available in Canadian Walmarts because Fram cried a sob story about how their pricier filters weren't moving well alongside a cheaper, bona fide OES product.
It's funny that we ran Havoline and Fram filters for DECADES in an entire fleet of trucks and never experienced any issues.
I would say perhaps there was one issue that was experienced that you may have overlooked. I doubt that the Fram filters were the cheapest you could have bought for the vehicles.
If I had bought Fram over Wix for taxi fleet maintenance over the years, it would have cost me roughly $100 extra per year. Whether Fram's cheaper construction actually results in failures is certainly open to debate. Some have had problems, some have not.
The price issue is not open to interpretation. I suspect AC Delco filters are no longer available in Canadian Walmarts because Fram cried a sob story about how their pricier filters weren't moving well alongside a cheaper, bona fide OES product.
I serviced diesel generators for almost 20 years. I've used filters made by Wix, Baldwin, Fleetguard (Cummins), Caterpillar (Not sure who makes them) and SOMETIMES, when nothing else was available for the application at the moment, Fram. The ONLY filter failure I ever had, was a Fram oil filter in my wife's Saturn. It was a paper cartridge that went into a housing on the Opel V6. Engine had a wicked rod knock and when I opened the filter can, the paper element was broken right in half. Never used another one, especially after Fram never answered any of my e mail. I didn't expect them to buy my wife an engine, I just would have liked to know how an element breaks in half.
yeah, I hear all these stories about the OCOD and I am finding them to be very few and far between. Most are simply repeating what they heard. Some have actual proof. Add in the "Internet Amplification" and it sounds HUGE!
I'm not talking about 15 or 20 oil changes, I'm talking hundreds. We routinely ran fleet Dodge 318's over 250k miles with the Havoline/Fram combo, and we changed every 3k miles! You could not expect more trouble free miles out of a V* in the old days on Dino oil.
So perhaps they were bad sometimes, but on a percentage basis I'd have to say it's mighty small.
I'm not talking about 15 or 20 oil changes, I'm talking hundreds. We routinely ran fleet Dodge 318's over 250k miles with the Havoline/Fram combo, and we changed every 3k miles! You could not expect more trouble free miles out of a V* in the old days on Dino oil.
So perhaps they were bad sometimes, but on a percentage basis I'd have to say it's mighty small.
The main argument against the OCOD isn't the failure rate. Its simple economics. The OCOD is over-priced and there are better alternatives for the same price or less. That should be reason enough to use something else.
-Spyder
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
The main argument against the OCOD isn't the failure rate. Its simple economics. The OCOD is over-priced and there are better alternatives for the same price or less. That should be reason enough to use something else.
-Spyder
The price difference between the Fram PH2 and the Motorcraft FL-820S at WalMart? .03 cents.
Just the silicone anti-drainback valve in the Motorcraft over the nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve in the Fram is worth at least .03 cents
And last time I checked, Motorcraft filters were still made by Purolator. That's worth .03 cents to me.
And if I do handgrenade an engine because of the oil filter, I would hope that the Mazda dealer would honor the warranty. After all, Motorcraft is stamped into the dipstick. That peace-of-mind has got to be worth at least .03 cents.
And that's my .02 cents.
The main argument against the OCOD isn't the failure rate. Its simple economics. The OCOD is over-priced and there are better alternatives for the same price or less. That should be reason enough to use something else.
-Spyder
The price difference between the Fram PH2 and the Motorcraft FL-820S at WalMart? .03 cents.
Just the silicone anti-drainback valve in the Motorcraft over the nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve in the Fram is worth at least .03 cents
And last time I checked, Motorcraft filters were still made by Purolator. That's worth .03 cents to me.
And if I do handgrenade an engine because of the oil filter, I would hope that the Mazda dealer would honor the warranty. After all, Motorcraft is stamped into the dipstick. That peace-of-mind has got to be worth at least .03 cents.
And that's my .02 cents.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The price difference between the Fram PH2 and the Motorcraft FL-820S at WalMart? .03 cents.
Well, we don't have the benefit of Motorcraft (or AC Delco anymore) at Walmart. However, I still can get Wix for a buck cheaper at my parts supplier than I can get the equivalent Fram at Walmart. If I want Motorcraft, that's about a buck more than the Fram, and that's buying the Motorcraft at the dealer.
Saving a dollar (or even spending an extra one) is worth it to avoid the lineups at Walmart for a so-so filter.
The price difference between the Fram PH2 and the Motorcraft FL-820S at WalMart? .03 cents.
Well, we don't have the benefit of Motorcraft (or AC Delco anymore) at Walmart. However, I still can get Wix for a buck cheaper at my parts supplier than I can get the equivalent Fram at Walmart. If I want Motorcraft, that's about a buck more than the Fram, and that's buying the Motorcraft at the dealer.
Saving a dollar (or even spending an extra one) is worth it to avoid the lineups at Walmart for a so-so filter.
Originally Posted By: bepperb
You could just do better for the same money.
A+ I would only add that you can do WAAAAAAAAAY better for the same money. Sure, it's unlikely that a Fram will kill any given engine (though that seems to have happened on rare occasions), I'll buy the better filter, just because.
Hey, if you could have a brand new Cadillac for the same money as a brand new Chevrolet, which would you take? Or a brand new Lexus for the same money as a brand new Toyota?
Now, I've myself cut open Frams, and I'm in no way equating the quality of a Chevrolet or Toyota to a Fram, but still, I think you see the point. Frams have OBVIOUSLY worked for millions of motorists for many years. OTOH, Fram insults my intelligence and my sense of value. Buy them if you like -- I will NEVER use them. Ever.
You could just do better for the same money.
A+ I would only add that you can do WAAAAAAAAAY better for the same money. Sure, it's unlikely that a Fram will kill any given engine (though that seems to have happened on rare occasions), I'll buy the better filter, just because.
Hey, if you could have a brand new Cadillac for the same money as a brand new Chevrolet, which would you take? Or a brand new Lexus for the same money as a brand new Toyota?
Now, I've myself cut open Frams, and I'm in no way equating the quality of a Chevrolet or Toyota to a Fram, but still, I think you see the point. Frams have OBVIOUSLY worked for millions of motorists for many years. OTOH, Fram insults my intelligence and my sense of value. Buy them if you like -- I will NEVER use them. Ever.
OOOH, that HUGE price difference!
Seriously, knowing what we all know now makes it easy to change brands and all. Price is a very small component of our oil changing strategy, but is more important now with our DEAD economy.
But 20-25 years ago things were just a little different.
Seriously, knowing what we all know now makes it easy to change brands and all. Price is a very small component of our oil changing strategy, but is more important now with our DEAD economy.
But 20-25 years ago things were just a little different.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Buying the OCOD is like going to Mcdonalds, paying for a steak dinner and walking out with a Cheeseburger and a hot apple pie.
. [/quote]
Except MY "cheeseburger" had a stale bun...LOL
The FIRST TIME I ever used a Fram orange can I had a problem...
Installed the correct part as suggested by Fram on my 96 VW Golf....filled with correct oil to correct level (this is on a car that is almost brand new with only 5000 mi on it) And viola the oil pressure light and check engine light come on and STAY ON!!!!..Paniced I stop the car immediately after starting it...
I know I did everything correctly...I've been changing oil in my cars for almost 15 years now...
Have it towed to the dealer and what do you know, the ABDV is found to be defective!!!!!
I guess the only thing I did WRONG was use a Fram Orange can!
Buying the OCOD is like going to Mcdonalds, paying for a steak dinner and walking out with a Cheeseburger and a hot apple pie.
. [/quote]
Except MY "cheeseburger" had a stale bun...LOL
The FIRST TIME I ever used a Fram orange can I had a problem...
Installed the correct part as suggested by Fram on my 96 VW Golf....filled with correct oil to correct level (this is on a car that is almost brand new with only 5000 mi on it) And viola the oil pressure light and check engine light come on and STAY ON!!!!..Paniced I stop the car immediately after starting it...
I know I did everything correctly...I've been changing oil in my cars for almost 15 years now...
Have it towed to the dealer and what do you know, the ABDV is found to be defective!!!!!
I guess the only thing I did WRONG was use a Fram Orange can!
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I have no issues with Frams on beaters or Honda cars which surprise - Fram is THE OEM filter.
Originally Posted By: nthach
I have no issues with Frams on beaters or Honda cars which surprise - Fram is THE OEM filter.
Great -- use them if you like. I've consistently said that my main problem with them is that they provide so much less for the same money than other brands. Given a choice, I'll always take move over less.
I have no issues with Frams on beaters or Honda cars which surprise - Fram is THE OEM filter.
Great -- use them if you like. I've consistently said that my main problem with them is that they provide so much less for the same money than other brands. Given a choice, I'll always take move over less.
I recently stumbled upon this old thread, but despite its age I found it an enlightening look into oil filters for a newbie like me. Wish there was a more modern day update with some of the additional filters currently available... is there one out there?
It certainly doesn't invoke a good feeling about the bottom tier Fram offering.
It certainly doesn't invoke a good feeling about the bottom tier Fram offering.
Can slam Fram because what's in the can. I never slam Fram even though I can.
Originally Posted By: KurtJ
I recently stumbled upon this old thread, but despite its age I found it an enlightening look into oil filters for a newbie like me. Wish there was a more modern day update with some of the additional filters currently available... is there one out there?
It certainly doesn't invoke a good feeling about the bottom tier Fram offering.
Here's an interesting study done by a member here ... "river_rat".
http://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/index.html
I recently stumbled upon this old thread, but despite its age I found it an enlightening look into oil filters for a newbie like me. Wish there was a more modern day update with some of the additional filters currently available... is there one out there?
It certainly doesn't invoke a good feeling about the bottom tier Fram offering.
Here's an interesting study done by a member here ... "river_rat".
http://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/index.html
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