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#2018 - 06/30/02 12:49 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
Bror Jace Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 4851
Loc: Saratoga, NY
I have to say that while I agreed with much of what 59 VetteMan had to say about Slick-50 and other PTFE products, I appreciated Johnny's rebuttal about the various mergers, acquisitions and other corporate shenanigans. We don't always like every move made by our corporate parents. Unfortunately the market supports some seriously dumb products ... mostly because dumb, unthinking people will buy them. [Roll Eyes]

I remember when I worked for a small division of Pepsi that used to supply food to Pizza Hut, KFC and Taco Bell, there was a rumor that Pepsi was going to buy Burger King. The official response from corporate HQ was that they were #1 in pizza franchises, #1 in chicken franchises, #1 in mexican fast food and they didn't want to be #2 in burger franchises. Gee, ya think Pepsi spent a little too much time being #2 to Coke and now they have a complex? [Wink]

Anyway, I wouldn't use a PTFE-based product in my car if you GAVE it to me. [Roll Eyes] But I have to admit I've used it in the past. [Embarrassed]

And about being a moderator, I think if this were a much larger board with many hundreds of members, a moderator may be asked to be more nuetral. But with only a few dozen REALLY active participants, I think that's too much to ask.

#2019 - 06/30/02 12:54 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
csandste Offline

Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 882
Loc: St. Peters, Missouri
Agree with Bror Jace about moderator. Pat on the sedans board of Edmunds was totally a moderator and spent all of her time making people behave and deleting any contentious posts. Other Edmunds moderators that posted their views made for a much more interesting forum. So go at it, Johnny is easily able to stand up for himself and Pennzoil...

#2020 - 07/01/02 02:29 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
MolaKule Offline

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 13616
Loc: Midwest
A moderator is a people too and can have and should share his opinions as well. Vetteman and others do a magnificent job keeping the Bearings lubed here. Highest quality list i've seen so far.

Regarding Slick-50; simply a slick marketing tool. The reason it caught people up was because it was introduced right after the Teflon fat literally hit the frying pans. PTFE was slick on the frying pan, why not in lubes?

Here's the Slick facts:

Teflon (PTFE) is only good as a SOLID lubricant and well below its softening temps. PTFE is often molded into a journal bearing shape or sintered into other mixes as a bearing. Teflon is NOT polar and has no natural afinnity to metals. Technically speaking, it is not equitable to compare the MoTDC with Teflon, colloidal or not.

In order for Teflon to be used as solid lubricant, say in a cylinder, the metal or surface to be treated must be heated well above PTFE's gas phase in order for it to bond, and then only under high electrostatic (high electrical field) conditions. In a piston/ring situation, if the rings were made of metal, and the liner coated with PTFE, the PTFE coating would get sheared rather quickly.

PTFE is used in medical (transfusion) pumps and devices because it is so highly inert (as long as it stays in its solid phase).

#2021 - 07/01/02 03:32 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?

Getting back to the topic ... [Wink] Had my local dealer do the last oil change - didn't ask for anything special and got 10W-30 GTX. Somewhere between 2.5k and 3.0k I'll change it again (or get it changed [Big Grin] ).

[ July 01, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: harry31 ]

#2022 - 07/01/02 08:38 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
Johnny Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 14013
Loc: Retired | Wausau, WI
csandste: Shell deal still on. Probably somewhere around October 1st. The oil brands should remain seperate.

MolaKule: I could not agree with you more about PTFE. I sold against it for years.

59Vetteman: The next time I'm in Russellville, AR, we are going to set on you back porch and drink sweet ice tea and eat some good southern fried chicken. [Big Grin]

harry31: Great idea. Back to the topic.


#2023 - 07/01/02 08:55 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
Bio-T Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 5336
Loc: London, AR
We won't sit on the back porch until after we get done Striper fishing. Lake is only 3 miles from the house. Or black bass, white bass/hybreds. With 3 boats I can find one running.
I went to high school in Reedsburg by the way.

PATMAN: Back to your original question, I am waiting on my bottles from Dyson Analysis and I will have results on my dino oil with 4500 miles on it. This is 15W40 from my truck, and I won't be doing any changes, just analysis. I am going to run this until analysis says to change.

[ July 02, 2002, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

#2024 - 07/02/02 06:43 PM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
widman Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 2977
Loc: Bolivia
Before getting back to the subject: I have had many problems from customers who put in Fram filters. I have cut them too, and pictures are posted on my site.
Although I sell other brands, I think Pennzoil is a good product in the U.S. But they don't have the same products or standards around the world.
Now the subject:
I have hundreds of analysis of Group I oils as it makes up 80% of my volume. I try to keep people between 4000 and 6000 miles or 350-400 hours due to dirt contamination. Analysis is more useful for programing maintenance than for seeing how the oil hold up, but it shows that as well.
In the last 500 or so analysis I have on these (SJ/CH-4)(Just got my SL/CH-4 inventory last week)show very little wear unless there is an outside contaminant. There are "problems" of viscosity (one grade) on two types of engines "Deutz" air-cooled tend to increase visc. after 300 hours or so, and Nissan stationary powerplant engines shear around that point. This week we put Delo in about a dozen of those engines, so in about a month or so I will see the difference.
I have also tested several other major brands that have either increased or decreased out of grade at 200 hours and a couple at 600 miles.
Outside contaminants found: Dirt from poor filtration, Sodium from pressure washing engines, agricultural residues from spraying crops, diesel from leaking injectors, hydraulic fluids and gear oils from using the same pumps or measuring cans.

#2025 - 07/04/02 12:04 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
Bill Williams Offline

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 17
Loc: S. W. Wisconsin
Did my first oil & filter change today on 2002 Pontiac Grand Am with the Ecotec 2.2 four cylinder engine.
Dealer gave free oil & filter change at about 2500 miles. Their free oil was 10/30 whatever came out of the bulk container(Goodwrench??) They did replace the filter with OEM AC Delco PF 2244G which is a paper-only filter cartridge,(easy disposal)I burned it along with some wastepaper.

After many,many, hours browsing this and other forums my choice of oil was 5-W-30 Chevron Supreme,Dino SL. Our car befor this one,a 1995 Saturn SW1 had Mobil 1 put in at first oil change and every five or six K thereafter I sold it this year after 112000 happy miles.

I may go 5000 miles befor the next oil change and may do an oil analysis at that time.

Maybe I will be able to read here about some other SL Dino oil analysis befor my next oil change??


#2026 - 07/04/02 05:12 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
Bill Williams Offline

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 17
Loc: S. W. Wisconsin
I think I should add some questions to my above post.

1. Any thoughts on going 5,000 miles befor changing oil & filter again? To many miles or to few?

2. This little 2.2L engine has a crankcase that took within 3 ounces of five full quarts of oil befor reaching the full mark on the dipstick.
Is a large crankcase with a small engine conducive to long oil life? long engine life? Or both??


#2027 - 07/04/02 06:02 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
Patman Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19186
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally posted by Bill Williams:

Is a large crankcase with a small engine conducive to long oil life? long engine life? Or both??

I think a small engine with a larger than normal crankcase capacity would have both a longer engine life and less stress on the oil so it could go longer intervals too.

#2028 - 07/06/02 12:06 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
widman Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 2977
Loc: Bolivia
yes, in general, the larger the sump in relation to the engine size & load, the longer you can go. But 5,000 miles of short hops might be too much, and 5,000 miles of 60 mph interstate would be too short.

#2029 - 07/28/02 05:48 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
fatrat540 Offline

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 32
Loc: PA.
96 F-150 302 V-8 pushrod motor. Had since new every 3000 miles a Motorcraft FL-1A and Motorcraft 10W-30 for first 100k. After that went to Motorcraft 15W-40. Truck now has 214k. Still runs great.

#2030 - 07/28/02 05:53 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
fatrat540 Offline

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 32
Loc: PA.
add to last reply never had an oil test done.

#2031 - 07/28/02 05:58 AM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
slickracer Offline

Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 109
Loc: PA
I have been using conventional Valvoline in my cars since I started driving. My grandfather worked for a large trucking fleet that used nothing but Valvoline products with excellent success. One thing that really sold me on Valvoline was when I did a valve job on a 20hp Onan garden tractor engine with 750 hours on it. This engine has had nothing but HPO SAE 30 oil and still had the hone marks in the cylinders. I may get blasted, but I think for the 95% of all drivers all the oil hype is a waste of time. Use a name brand oil, a good filter, change it every 4,000 to 5,000 miles and drive on.

#2032 - 07/28/02 02:45 PM Re: Who is running conventional oil?
Patman Offline

Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19186
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Slickracer, you are correct. For most people if they use conventional oil and change it every 4-5k they will still not have engine troubles for at least 100-150k. But for those of us that want to do extended intervals, or get that engine to last 200k+, we just want something a little better than what Walmart sells. The new SL oils are vastly improved, that is true, but there are still better oils available for those that want to look further.

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