According to the source for the GM "oil cap" document, the price will be @ $4.35-4.50/qt at his dealership.
Mobil1 5w-30 meet dexos1- Combined Dexos Thread
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Volkswagen pretty much requires synthetics for most of its cars. Mercedes and BMW definitely require synthetics for all of their cars. Honda and Toyota are trying to find the thinnest oils they can use, which will require synthetics to keep volatility from being sky-high. Looks like GM's catching up.
+1
I heard Toyota Canada will require 0W-20 in several cars in 2011. I don't think you can get there without synthetic.
Some US Toyotas this year call for 0W-20. They also say that you can use 5W-20 but then your next oil change has to be at 1/2 the normal interval and to go back to 0W-20. That sounds like a push towards synthetics.
Volkswagen pretty much requires synthetics for most of its cars. Mercedes and BMW definitely require synthetics for all of their cars. Honda and Toyota are trying to find the thinnest oils they can use, which will require synthetics to keep volatility from being sky-high. Looks like GM's catching up.
+1
I heard Toyota Canada will require 0W-20 in several cars in 2011. I don't think you can get there without synthetic.
Some US Toyotas this year call for 0W-20. They also say that you can use 5W-20 but then your next oil change has to be at 1/2 the normal interval and to go back to 0W-20. That sounds like a push towards synthetics.
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Some formulators who have reviewed the Dexos specification say they can only achieve it through heavy use of API Group III or polyalphaolefin base oils, due to its low Noack volatility limits.
Thank you for bringing some much needed clarity to this topic. I'm not a big fan of all these proprietary specs. However, when you bring up the issue that only a synthetic oil is likely to be able to meet GM's requirements, things start to make a little more sense.
If GM wishes to specify synthetic only, I suppose that's their choice. It's not like no one else does that. And, from GM's perspective, if SN and GF-5 are not quite up to the task, what alternative do they have? Perhaps some ACEA specs might have worked and been a little more palatable to the consumer.
Another alternative would have been simply to spec an SN/GF-5 synthetic, but we all know what kind of hornet's nest that can bring up. Perhaps API needs another fork in its specifications. I don't know. They have a set for diesel (C) and a set for gasoline (S). Maybe they need some additional specifications for synthetics.
On the other side of the coin, I can understand that diesels, Vettes, and DI engines might need a more robust oil. The notion, however, that a Tahoe or Impala or Malibu (that will likely never even see E85, has no turbo, and will never rev above 3500 rpm) needs a Group III or IV is a bit of a joke, and a bad one at that.
Some formulators who have reviewed the Dexos specification say they can only achieve it through heavy use of API Group III or polyalphaolefin base oils, due to its low Noack volatility limits.
Thank you for bringing some much needed clarity to this topic. I'm not a big fan of all these proprietary specs. However, when you bring up the issue that only a synthetic oil is likely to be able to meet GM's requirements, things start to make a little more sense.
If GM wishes to specify synthetic only, I suppose that's their choice. It's not like no one else does that. And, from GM's perspective, if SN and GF-5 are not quite up to the task, what alternative do they have? Perhaps some ACEA specs might have worked and been a little more palatable to the consumer.
Another alternative would have been simply to spec an SN/GF-5 synthetic, but we all know what kind of hornet's nest that can bring up. Perhaps API needs another fork in its specifications. I don't know. They have a set for diesel (C) and a set for gasoline (S). Maybe they need some additional specifications for synthetics.
On the other side of the coin, I can understand that diesels, Vettes, and DI engines might need a more robust oil. The notion, however, that a Tahoe or Impala or Malibu (that will likely never even see E85, has no turbo, and will never rev above 3500 rpm) needs a Group III or IV is a bit of a joke, and a bad one at that.
The Quaker State website lists their Ultimate Durability oil as meeting the GM Dexos1 specification. I always liked Q-state.
http://www.quakerstate.com/#/motor-oil/ultimate-durability
http://www.quakerstate.com/#/motor-oil/ultimate-durability
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...and they told me that UD is the same fluid as QTP and QHP, as I enquired on this point in regards to A5.
Dexos 2 is listed under Opel in Lubrizol's Euro Spec comparator.
When you look at it in comparison to other specs it is clearly a synthetic spec, but still not quite as robust as other Euros, especially in regards to sludge.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html
When you look at it in comparison to other specs it is clearly a synthetic spec, but still not quite as robust as other Euros, especially in regards to sludge.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html
GM is a part of ILSAC, International Lubrication Standardization and Approval Committee that created GF-5. So, in my opinion, I think that DEXOS is just a way for GM to make money from licensing fees. GM was part of the group that set the GF-5 Standards, which set up API's SN Standards, API had to meet GF-5 Specifications.
My opinion: Money grab by GM......Since they can't make money off manufacturing of cruddy automobiles....lol
My opinion: Money grab by GM......Since they can't make money off manufacturing of cruddy automobiles....lol
Patman
Staff member
The logic of them making Platinum the first one to have Dexos status and not Ultra simply baffles me.
Originally Posted By: Patman
The logic of them making Platinum the first one to have Dexos status and not Ultra simply baffles me.
Yeah me too, I was thinking the same thing! Can we assume (dangerous I know) that since it isn't mentioned that Ultra is NOT Dexos approved? Yet Ultra is supposed to be "better" than Platinum?!
The logic of them making Platinum the first one to have Dexos status and not Ultra simply baffles me.
Yeah me too, I was thinking the same thing! Can we assume (dangerous I know) that since it isn't mentioned that Ultra is NOT Dexos approved? Yet Ultra is supposed to be "better" than Platinum?!
This Dexos fiasco is the final straw that turn me off in ever consider a GM vehicle.
Originally Posted By: Troy_Built
although I do not own a GM and Don't ever plan on it either.
+1
I will never buy a GM vehicle after this stupid Dexos.
+1
I will never buy a GM vehicle after this stupid Dexos.
Money drives it.......
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
This Dexos fiasco is the final straw that turn me off in ever consider a GM vehicle.
+1
ME TO!
This Dexos fiasco is the final straw that turn me off in ever consider a GM vehicle.
+1
ME TO!
Does GM not expect it to be around due to low perceived demand like some have suggested at certain Wal-marts on this site?
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Well, GM can not make money selling car, now they are selling oil.
"Although GM has not officially settled on an amount, they are moving forward with plans to charge a licensing fee and royalty on all Dexos engine oil sold. The original estimate had a licensing fee of $1,000.00 per year for each oil marketer, with an approved Dexos product, and a royalty fee of $0.32 on every gallon sold, worldwide."
http://www.nalube.com/e-newsletter/archive/2009/july.html
Another reason to just say no to GM...
I'm sure they changed all their motors to REQUIRE the Dexos oil. Normal SM oils will cause serious problems with their "special" motors...
How can they go from OLM that run great with ANY oil to this???
Amazing....
Bill,
Maybe you can provide a link where it shows GM saying that SM oils will cause "serious problems with their special motors"????
I havent seen anything like that....All I'm seeing is common sense that they want to expand OCI's through confident use of the OLM. Their DI engines require lower Noack volatility, so they are requiring that.
Again, please provide a link where GM even hints at current oils causing serious problems.
Oh and the data you quoted is outdated and has nothing to do with reality as it exists today. A link was provided in the oil cap thread, and this thread is based on that link that supersedes the information regarding fees you quoted and the other guy linked to. Did you two read the link in the first post of this thread? Sorry not that link, this link....
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001713657.cfm?x=bgCRnjw,bh5DL1wP,w
This was osted in the oil cap thread, the one that got shut down, because people were talking about things like....oh like GM and how they will never buy one and why....among other things. Why make your own first post in this thread along the same lines?
"Another reason to just say no to GM"....Sounds just like more backhanded bashing that can only invite comment, why go there?
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Well, GM can not make money selling car, now they are selling oil.
"Although GM has not officially settled on an amount, they are moving forward with plans to charge a licensing fee and royalty on all Dexos engine oil sold. The original estimate had a licensing fee of $1,000.00 per year for each oil marketer, with an approved Dexos product, and a royalty fee of $0.32 on every gallon sold, worldwide."
http://www.nalube.com/e-newsletter/archive/2009/july.html
Another reason to just say no to GM...
I'm sure they changed all their motors to REQUIRE the Dexos oil. Normal SM oils will cause serious problems with their "special" motors...
How can they go from OLM that run great with ANY oil to this???
Amazing....
Bill,
Maybe you can provide a link where it shows GM saying that SM oils will cause "serious problems with their special motors"????
I havent seen anything like that....All I'm seeing is common sense that they want to expand OCI's through confident use of the OLM. Their DI engines require lower Noack volatility, so they are requiring that.
Again, please provide a link where GM even hints at current oils causing serious problems.
Oh and the data you quoted is outdated and has nothing to do with reality as it exists today. A link was provided in the oil cap thread, and this thread is based on that link that supersedes the information regarding fees you quoted and the other guy linked to. Did you two read the link in the first post of this thread? Sorry not that link, this link....
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001713657.cfm?x=bgCRnjw,bh5DL1wP,w
This was osted in the oil cap thread, the one that got shut down, because people were talking about things like....oh like GM and how they will never buy one and why....among other things. Why make your own first post in this thread along the same lines?
"Another reason to just say no to GM"....Sounds just like more backhanded bashing that can only invite comment, why go there?
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Originally Posted By: Patman
The logic of them making Platinum the first one to have Dexos status and not Ultra simply baffles me.
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Yeah me too, I was thinking the same thing! Can we assume (dangerous I know) that since it isn't mentioned that Ultra is NOT Dexos approved? Yet Ultra is supposed to be "better" than Platinum?!
Question 5:
General Motors has taken a different direction and will specify Dexos 1 for gasoline engines and Dexos 2 for diesel engines. Will Pennzoil Ultra address the requirements of either or both of these specs? If so, in what viscosities?
Answer 5:
The Pennzoil® family of motor oils is designed to cover the needs of virtually all engine types, and with that - we have great news for you. GM now states Pennzoil Platinum® synthetic viscosity grades SAE 5W-20 and 5W-30 as dexos 1 approved. (If you’re asking why Pennzoil Platinum® and not Pennzoil Ultra™, it’s because we chose our most widely distributed synthetic motor oil. A testament to Pennzoil Platinum® as a good place to start if you want synthetic motor oil). We do have a qualified dexos 2 Pennzoil Ultra™ oil ready for use when required.
Question 17:
Why is Platinum 5w-30 certified for ACEA A5 / 4718M / HTO-06 but Ultra 5w-30 only certified for 4718M and HTO-06, but not ACEA A5? This makes the Ultra 5w-30 weaker on paper than Platinum 5w-30 in terms of certification.
Answer 17:
ACEA no longer allows the splitting of gasoline (A specifications) and light duty diesel (B specifications), as the diesel side of the specification will not allow US type FE (GF-5) performance, the ACEA specifications will be dropped off all ILSAC GF-5 products in the future.
Rest assured that Pennzoil Ultra™ outperforms Pennzoil Platinum®. The reason for the “paper” specification difference is based on a decision to focus our ILSAC grades more directly on the needs of engines calling for ILSAC performance and addressing the Euro performance with versions of Ultra specifically targeted for European imports. Thus our Euro oils not only exceed the ACEA A/B specifications, but they also address specific needs for VW, MB, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche and Maserati.
The logic of them making Platinum the first one to have Dexos status and not Ultra simply baffles me.
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Yeah me too, I was thinking the same thing! Can we assume (dangerous I know) that since it isn't mentioned that Ultra is NOT Dexos approved? Yet Ultra is supposed to be "better" than Platinum?!
Question 5:
General Motors has taken a different direction and will specify Dexos 1 for gasoline engines and Dexos 2 for diesel engines. Will Pennzoil Ultra address the requirements of either or both of these specs? If so, in what viscosities?
Answer 5:
The Pennzoil® family of motor oils is designed to cover the needs of virtually all engine types, and with that - we have great news for you. GM now states Pennzoil Platinum® synthetic viscosity grades SAE 5W-20 and 5W-30 as dexos 1 approved. (If you’re asking why Pennzoil Platinum® and not Pennzoil Ultra™, it’s because we chose our most widely distributed synthetic motor oil. A testament to Pennzoil Platinum® as a good place to start if you want synthetic motor oil). We do have a qualified dexos 2 Pennzoil Ultra™ oil ready for use when required.
Question 17:
Why is Platinum 5w-30 certified for ACEA A5 / 4718M / HTO-06 but Ultra 5w-30 only certified for 4718M and HTO-06, but not ACEA A5? This makes the Ultra 5w-30 weaker on paper than Platinum 5w-30 in terms of certification.
Answer 17:
ACEA no longer allows the splitting of gasoline (A specifications) and light duty diesel (B specifications), as the diesel side of the specification will not allow US type FE (GF-5) performance, the ACEA specifications will be dropped off all ILSAC GF-5 products in the future.
Rest assured that Pennzoil Ultra™ outperforms Pennzoil Platinum®. The reason for the “paper” specification difference is based on a decision to focus our ILSAC grades more directly on the needs of engines calling for ILSAC performance and addressing the Euro performance with versions of Ultra specifically targeted for European imports. Thus our Euro oils not only exceed the ACEA A/B specifications, but they also address specific needs for VW, MB, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche and Maserati.
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