Toyota Brand 0W-20 extreme cold spec's

[CATERHAM]

With the switch from supplier Nippon Oil to Exxon Mobil I have finally been able to get the CCS and MRV spec's from Toyota Canada.

Here's a complete up date of what I know:

100C vis .... 8.8 cSt
40C vis .....39.3 cSt
VI .......... 214
Flash Pt .... >200C
HTHS ...... 2.6 cP
CCS @ -35C ..... 5,700 cP
MRV @ -40 .... 18,000 cP

The CCS and MRV spec's are not great for this GP III oil and if I was starting a car unaided at temps below -30C this would not be my oil of choice. I suspect this oil is similar to Honda's 0W-20 and I've seen the viscosity / temp gragh for the Honda 0W-20 and 0W-10 oils on the Honda of Japan website and these oils hit the wall at about -30C where the viscosities spike. But these oils are designed to be very light at more typical start-up temps.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
With the switch from supplier Nippon Oil to Exxon Mobil I have finally been able to get the CCS and MRV spec's from Toyota Canada.


So it is because this oil is from Mobil that the vise grips were released on this information?

So it wasn't Toyota that was being secretive but rather Nippon giving Toyota strict instructions not to disclose?

 

[CATERHAM]

Don't know the reason, but I used the argument, since XM is now the supplier and that they readily provide the stat's for all their own oils the info should now be available. I also said I have a freind in Edmonton where the temp's frequently drop down below -40 and he would like to know the MRV and CCS stat's.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
CCS @ -35C ..... 5,700 cP
MRV @ -40 .... 18,000 cP


All 0w oils that I've looked at appear to have nearly the same spec's for CCS/MRV. They don't appear to vary too much in that they're somewhat close to the limit on CCS. They're all way below (iirc) the 60k Cp limit.

Rotella T SB

0w-30

CCS @ -35F = 5101
MRV @ -40F = 18241

0w-40
CCS @ -35 = 4911 (

)
MRV @ -40 = 24182

T5 0w-40

Dyn. Index (ASTM D 5293)
@ -35°C mPa s
5800

PZ hybrid 0w-20

MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 17,500 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 4840 (-35)

I'm not sure if you're going to have too many choices in differentiating 0w oils at these temps. Once outside of those confines will be a different story.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

CCS @ -35C ..... 5,700 cP
MRV @ -40 .... 18,000 cP


Now dont jump all over me

but did you get the PP # for this oil?

 

[CATERHAM]

As you know CCS and MRV are largely academic spec's for most of us that never see those super cold temps.

AFAIK, M1's AFE has the lowest numbers with a MRV of 5692 cP for their 0W-20 and 11,100 cP for their 0W-30 and those are PAO based oils.

But the Toyota 0W-20 with it's 40C vis of 39.3 cSt and 214 VI is undoubtedly lighter than M1's 0W-20 (40C vis 45.5 cSt and VI of 171) at temps down to at least 0C.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

CCS @ -35C ..... 5,700 cP
MRV @ -40 .... 18,000 cP


Now dont jump all over me

but did you get the PP # for this oil?


No, but then you know what I think of the PP stat.
But the ENEOS 0W-20, which has a similar formula to the Toyota oil has a PP of -43C IIRC so it's likely not much lower than that.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

CCS @ -35C ..... 5,700 cP
MRV @ -40 .... 18,000 cP


Now dont jump all over me

but did you get the PP # for this oil?


No, but then you know what I think of the PP stat.


I definitely know your feelings on this sexy but shallow stat

but I was just surprised that when you asked for the cold weather stats that they didn't just come back with the standard pour point.

 

[CATERHAM]

I specifically asked just for the CCS and MRV stat's

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
AFAIK, M1's AFE has the lowest numbers with a MRV of 5692 cP for their 0W-20 and 11,100 cP for their 0W-30 and those are PAO based oils.


I find it somewhat interesting that XOM only publishes the AFE MRV numbers on their 20 and 30 grade 0w oils. They manage it for the 0w-40 for some odd reason.

 

[Silber Igel]

Catterham, Ya gotta be kiddin'.... MINUS 30F???? People live in that? No, survive in that? I'd be more worried about my tires breaking to bits in that cold.

 

[Y_K]

Thank you for sharing. Some food for thought..

 

[CATERHAM]

They used to provide it for their 5W, 10W and even 15W oils.
But they are taken at increasingly higher temps which makes comparisons between grades difficult.

Pennzoil gives the CCS spec at -35C for their 5W oils as well so you can compare that spec to 0W oils.
Foe example PU 5W-20 has a CCS at -35C of 4250 cP and for their 5W-30 at -35C it's 5150 cP. Those numbers are very low so it may be a mistake and they really are -30C figures.

 

[CATERHAM]

Your
Originally Posted By: Silber Igel

Catterham, Ya gotta be kiddin'.... MINUS 30F???? People live in that? No, survive in that? I'd be more worried about my tires breaking to bits in that cold.

You're right about tires in so much that they progressively loose their grip as the temp's drop. In fact at temp's not much below freezing summer tires have lost so much grip even on dry pavement that some jurisdictions like the province of Quebec have banned there use; you must have designated winter tires which have a very compliant tread compound at sub zero temp's.

 

[CATERHAM]

addyguy, just reminded me in a PM that Petro-Canada's 0W-20 has some very good cold weather stats. Not as good as M1's AFE oils but much better than the Toyota Brand and likely Honda's 0W-20 as well.

The PC 0W-20 is a heavier 20wt than most with it's HTHS vis od 2.7 cP, and it's CCS @-35C is 5210 cP and MRV @-40 is 12,440 cP.
PC 0W-30 is also lighter with a CCS @-35C of 5524 cP and MRV of 14,204 cP.

Castrol Edge 0W-20 is a very light oil, lighter than the Toyota Brand at all start up temperatures:

40C vis 38.62 cSt
CCS @-30C 3860 cP
MRV @-40C 7800 cP

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Castrol Edge 0W-20 is a very light oil, lighter than the Toyota Brand at all start up temperatures:

40C vis 38.62 cSt
CCS @-30C 3860 cP
MRV @-40C 7800 cP




I seem to recall the VOA on Edge 0w20 showing an even lower 40c viscosity of 35 cst (the lowest that I have ever heard of on here in fact)

 

[CATERHAM]

Yes it was a Dyson Analysis VOA:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1919589#Post1919589

But both the 40C vis at 35.6 cSt and the 100C vis at 8.4 cSt are lower than what Castrol claims, so I tend to take a conservative stance and side with the formulator. Nevertheless, it's still the lightest start-up viscosity of any SM oil you can by (but not in Canada).