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#1950060 - 07/11/10 05:36 PM Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point
sbachmeier Offline


Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Middleton, Wisconsin
I went ahead and placed my Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40 order for my first oil change (I decided to do it at around 1000 miles, *before* we drive on a marathon 3500-4000 mile summer vacation in August). However, I was somewhat apprehensive of the Pour Point that was listed in a PDF specification sheet (dated 09/04) that I found on the Internets: it was -27 F, which can happen here in Wisconsin several times in any given winter.

However, then I ran across another specification sheet (dated 09/02) that listed the Pour Point as -38 F: much more comforting for our winter climate.

So, which is the real pour point? The -27 F number seems out of character for a synthetic oil...

Motul specs

Motul specs 2
_________________________
2010 VW Passat Variant 2.0 TSI (running Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40 for now...)

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#1950762 - 07/12/10 12:37 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: silverrat]
Jorge Offline


Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 18
Loc: Michigan, USA
Motul's website is horrible in my experience for finding product and tech info.

FWIW, the two oil formulations seem to be different based on the data you posted if you check viscosity, density, etc.

A pour point around -38 F would be typical for a good synthetic 5W in my experience but you should try to confirm the actual pour point on the current Motul 8100-Xcess 5W-40 with Motul directly if possible.

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#1950775 - 07/12/10 12:47 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: Jorge]
Finklejag Offline


Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 1438
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40 is an old oil in the Motul line. It only meets BMW LL-98 and MB 229.3. You should of posted here first before you bought the oil.

You have the same TSI engine that I have in my 2010 GTI. I switched over to Redline 5W-40. Many have also. It's the most shear stable and holds its flashpoint in the FSI/TSI engines compared to the VW 502 oils.

If you only want to use a VW 502 oil during warranty. Then I would suggest Chevron Supreme Sythetic 5W-40 or Kendall GT-1 Synthetic 5W-40. You can call around to your local oil distributors for pricing. I wouldn't waste your money on Euro oils. They are no better then the US made oils.
_________________________
2010 Volkswagen GTI 2.0T

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#1950800 - 07/12/10 01:17 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: Finklejag]
Jorge Offline


Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 18
Loc: Michigan, USA
How can anyone possibly know if a Euro or any other oil is appropriate or superior to another oil without actual oil test sequence testing in the engine of discussion? If you're not conducting the expensive and time consuming oil test sequence for a given engine such as the VW 502, BMW LL-01, MB 229 or similar you can't tell how the oil actually performs in the engine. It's all speculation.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69:used-oil-analysis-uoas-and-the-results&catid=40:articles-of-the-month&Itemid=71


Edited by Jorge (07/12/10 01:19 PM)

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#1950818 - 07/12/10 01:34 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: Jorge]
Finklejag Offline


Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 1438
Loc: Vancouver, WA
I been on this site for over seven years. I have done my own UOA's and read pretty much every UOA's done on VW's. I will say it again, plain and simple. They're nothing special about the Euro made 5W-40 oils, compared to the US made 5W-40 oils.

People seem to think, "Hey it's from Europe". Then it has to be better. Both the Chevron and Kendall will perform just as same, or better then any of the Euro made oils. I have seen it in the past with Pennzoil Platinum Vs Mobil 1.
_________________________
2010 Volkswagen GTI 2.0T

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#1950871 - 07/12/10 02:01 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: Finklejag]
Jorge Offline


Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 18
Loc: Michigan, USA
I didn't say Euro oils were "special". I said you can't tell how well an oil actually lubricates an engine without conducting the oil test sequence as car makers do on the specific engine and oils.

A UOA does not tell you how an oil performs in the engine as Doug Hillary's UOA article explains. You can read UOA results until you are blue in the face but they only tell you the proper OCI, not how the oil actually performs in the engine. Many people are of the misconception that a $25 UOA test can be substituted for the extensive oil test sequence used by car makers but it can not. See the ACEA A3/B4 specs as a starting point for Euro oil testing. ACEA was formed by the Euro car makers to address better oils required for modern cars that API was not addressing.

If your vehicle is still under warranty and you care about the warranty then I'd use an approved VW 502 oil. If your vehicle is out of warranty and/or you don't care about your warranty then you can pick any oil that you like but the problem is no one can tell you which oil is "best" for your engine unless they have conducted the VW 502 or other oil test sequence on all oils of interest. Audi specifies the VW 505.01 spec oils for the RS models so you might want to consider it in a 5W-40 viscosity to deal with the heat issues in your locale?

A UOA does not tell you which oil lubricates your engine best, it only tells you what the proper OCI is for the oil. To actually know which oil performs best in your engine then you'd need to run the expensive and time consuming oil test sequence that car makers conduct to determine the oil requirements for a given engine.

READ this BEFORE attempting to use UOA to determine if one oil is better than another



Edited by Jorge (07/12/10 02:05 PM)

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#1951075 - 07/12/10 05:09 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: Finklejag]
sbachmeier Offline


Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Middleton, Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
I wouldn't waste your money on Euro oils. They are no better then the US made oils.


Well, buying US-made Red Line certainly isn't going to save me any money compared to the Euro-trash Motul that I chose to try -- at least in terms of the cost of the oil itself. I'm kind of painted into a corner though, warranty-wise, since I opted to purchase the 6-year 100,000 mile extended warranty (we're a 1-car family, so I thought some extra warranty coverage might not be a bad idea).

Then again, I have to wonder: would VW really be a ____ about refusing a warranty claim if I used Red Line? Has anyone heard about such ill behavior on VW's part?


Edited by Bill in Utah (07/12/10 06:10 PM)
Edit Reason: bypassing the censor
_________________________
2010 VW Passat Variant 2.0 TSI (running Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40 for now...)

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#1951113 - 07/12/10 05:55 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: sbachmeier]
Jorge Offline


Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 18
Loc: Michigan, USA
Yes, unfortunately VW and other car makers will void your warranty for not using the proper approved oil for your engine as it is a warranty requirement. It's not ill behavior, it's VW knowing what oils properly lubricate your engine and specifying those oils so you can properly protect your engine.

Companies like Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil etc. should not recommend their products for use in engines that require approved oils to maintain warranty coverage unless these companies have received approval for their products. There could be legal issues for all involved by recommending oils that a suppliers knows will void your OE new vehicle warranty?


Edited by Jorge (07/12/10 05:56 PM)

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#1951261 - 07/12/10 08:36 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: Jorge]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46555
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: Jorge
Yes, unfortunately VW and other car makers will void your warranty for not using the proper approved oil for your engine as it is a warranty requirement. It's not ill behavior, it's VW knowing what oils properly lubricate your engine and specifying those oils so you can properly protect your engine.

Companies like Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil etc. should not recommend their products for use in engines that require approved oils to maintain warranty coverage unless these companies have received approval for their products. There could be legal issues for all involved by recommending oils that a suppliers knows will void your OE new vehicle warranty?


It simply does not work that way in the USA. The manufacturer would have to prove the lubricant caused the damage, and even then they couldn't "void your (entire) OE new vehicle warranty"

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#1951914 - 07/13/10 02:09 PM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: Jorge]
Geo_Prizm Offline


Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 339
Loc: S.E. WI
Originally Posted By: Jorge
How can anyone possibly know if a Euro or any other oil is appropriate or superior to another oil without actual oil test sequence testing in the engine of discussion? If you're not conducting the expensive and time consuming oil test sequence for a given engine such as the VW 502, BMW LL-01, MB 229 or similar you can't tell how the oil actually performs in the engine. It's all speculation.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69:used-oil-analysis-uoas-and-the-results&catid=40:articles-of-the-month&Itemid=71


+1
_________________________
What is typed here is my personal opinion only based on my personal experiences.Do not take it as a 'blanket statement'.


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#1955194 - 07/16/10 08:48 AM Re: Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40: what's the real Pour Point [Re: sbachmeier]
FrenchTex Offline


Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 3
Loc: Texas
Hey there,

- the spec sheets show the poor point was measured by method ASTM D97, a manual method. Such method is subject to strong variations from operator to operator, and that comes on top of the variability from sample to sample
- it is unlikely that a 5W oil will not poor below -27F

If it were my car, I would put this oil in, run it for the long summer vacation trip and beyond. If you get worried that, with the winter coming, the oil might solidify, you can then change it for an oil with a better poor point.

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