1991 Audi 200 Turbo Valve Cover

[Garak]

Well, to make a long story short, my Audi is going to be down for a couple days. Because the local parts people (including the dealer) are incompetent and robbers, to boot, replacing an alternator belt has become a several day procedure. Audi makes a phenomenal adjuster bolt system which makes tightening a belt an easy, one man, no knuckle bleeding operation. However, the twenty year old part is rusty and has failed. The Audi parts buffoons don't think the $2.55 part is worth carrying and would rather charge $12 for it and make me wait until Friday to get it, after taking fifteen minutes of looking to find the right part because they never heard of such a thing. Online, I'm getting it for $2.55, and with other parts, and it'll be here just as soon with free shipping. And, they wonder why people here with Audis do as much work as they can themselves and provide enough business to local, independent specialty German shops to keep three of them open and busy all the time in a city this small.

Okay, rant over. My valve cover gasket is leaking like mad, and I'm looking to replace it while the car is down. Do any of our Audi fans have any idea of the torque specifications? I am not shelling out $150 for a Bentley manual for a torque specification, nor can I trust the dealer to give me a figure that they didn't pull out of their manuals...

As an added incentive, when I take the valve cover off, I will take pictures for us to look at. The car has about 225,000 km on it. I got it 25,000 km ago. For the first 200,000 km, all service and maintenance was done at the Audi dealer. Since then, it's oil changes have included Delvac, Delvac 1, Mobil 1, and a shot of Royal Purple.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I'd just snug it up equally. I don't own a torque wrench and never warped/stripped/broke anything I've tightened.


Agree, they are not called stealerships for nothing. I stay away from them at all costs.

Bill

 

[Audi Junkie]

I agree w/Bill, I never use a wrench. I posted your question here somewhere to get you an exact answer.

 

[bdcardinal]

They dont stock it because they probably dont have enough sales history to make it worth sitting on a shelf for years.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I'd just snug it up equally. I don't own a torque wrench and never warped/stripped/broke anything I've tightened.


That thought did cross my mind. I've never torqued them down in any of the taxis. Perhaps I'm just being overly picky.

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I agree w/Bill, I never use a wrench. I posted your question here somewhere to get you an exact answer.


Thanks for that. As for tightening it, when something breaks, I know I went too far. If it leaks, I didn't go far enough.

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They dont stock it because they probably dont have enough sales history to make it worth sitting on a shelf for years.


True, I can't see them selling a lot. However, they are roughly the same size as any vanilla type bolt for most applications one can name. They're inexpensive and wouldn't take up a lot of shelf space; stocking a dozen of them would probably supply this whole city for a few years. They're not a part that was only used for one or two years only. I assume they stock alternators. Stocking an adjusting bolt that is prone to seizing (it's one of the lowest points on the car and can easily get hit with water, salt, and slush) should be a no brainer. It's a brilliant design, but it simply isn't a part that is going to last the life of the car.

Had I been foolish enough to take it into the dealer for service, it would still be sitting there, and the bill would probably exceed $100 for an $8 belt and a $3 bolt. Or, worse, they likely would have jimmied it together and I would have been in trouble when the belt started to break in and stretch.

That's why my philosophy is what it is. If I can conceivably fix it myself, I will. If it's something that's completely out of my league, then I'll let someone else do it, and the dealer is the last resort.

That being said, some dealer parts departments are decent. The local Ford dealership sells wipers a bit cheaper than the local parts stores and big chains, and thermostats at less than half the cost, believe it or not.

bdcardinal: I just noticed your sig. Yes, the Ford parts guys are the good guys. My ancient 1984 F-150 has almost exclusively genuine Motorcraft replacement parts for a very good reason. The only non-Ford parts are the voltage regulator (an emergency), heater core (same deal), and the carb/intake (I put a 390 Holley on the 300). I even have genuine Motorcraft dual exhaust manifolds for my straight six, $40 brand new for the set!

 

[Audi Junkie]

My local Audi dealer stocks all kinda of crazy old parts. Never had to wait for anything, plus a special price.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
My local Audi dealer stocks all kinda of crazy old parts. Never had to wait for anything, plus a special price.


You're lucky. Our dealership's attitude has resulted in no less than three German specialty shops having thriving businesses in a little city.

For my online supplier, the $2.55 part is the actual Febi part. Much of what they have available are proper replacement parts, including made in Germany Bosch filters, Manns, Mahles, and so forth. I didn't realize that Bilstein made all kinds of things other than suspension components until I checked the parts site. The site has more available for the Audi than the Ford!

 

[Vizzy]

This kind of attitude is exactly what has put Audi and VW in the dog house over the years in the USA. The dealer base and US distributors here AoA and VWoA are mostly incompetent and greedy in the worst of ways...No wonder why such major players in the global automotive world are second tier here in NA.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
This kind of attitude is exactly what has put Audi and VW in the dog house over the years in the USA. The dealer base and US distributors here AoA and VWoA are mostly incompetent and greedy in the worst of ways...No wonder why such major players in the global automotive world are second tier here in NA.


That probably explains why I can find more genuine Audi parts online for cheaper and faster than I can at the dealership. There's a market for a reliable, cheap, and fast parts supplier, since the dealers can't or won't do the job.

The parts arrived yesterday by UPS, but I wasn't there, so I didn't get them yet, which certainly isn't their fault. That's just as fast as I would have got them from the dealer, who wanted 5 times the price. I bought two of the bolts, two hood struts, and a few oil filters, and that got me free shipping.

I love my Audi. I don't love the dealership. I buy virtually all my parts and filters for my Ford truck from the dealer. I haven't spent a dime at the Audi dealership, since they're expensive and indifferent.

 

[Vizzy]

Originally Posted By: Garak


I love my Audi. I don't love the dealership. I buy virtually all my parts and filters for my Ford truck from the dealer. I haven't spent a dime at the Audi dealership, since they're expensive and indifferent.


I have to chuckle because your comments above are basically the same of most Audi and VW owners in the USA.

You know I wouldn't mind if the prices were high at the dealership IF....IF the competence and service was top rate....but it most certainly isn't. If anything it is worse than that from Ford, GM, and Chrysler, not to mention other bottom feeders like Kia and Suzuki! Pathetic!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
I have to chuckle because your comments above are basically the same of most Audi and VW owners in the USA.


That rings very true. My buddy's uncle has been a member of the local VW club for years. I don't think I've met anyone that loves Audis and VWs as much as he does. The last new vehicle he bough, however, was an Echo. He absolutely refuses to buy a new VW because he doesn't trust the local service department and is getting to old to do his own work.

If Audi and VW can't sell their vehicles to their biggest fans, there's a huge problem. I'm lucky because I've got enough experience, the research skills, and the patience to do most things myself. I'd be hesitant to buy new from them because of their service department, if any warranty issues arose. You try to buy used here, and the ads all proclaim "dealer serviced," as if that means anything to a buyer who is familiar with the dealer.

They service engines with non-speced oils. They have zero competence when it comes to their own diesel engines. They can't keep a dozen replacement bolts around when they're a known failure issue, and they charge five times the online price.

The competence, service, and attitude are the prime issue. Considering I was able to find the OEM alternator adjuster online faster than the parts tech could on his computer, there is an issue there.

 

[Vizzy]

The most pathetic aspect is that VWoA /AoA have known that this issue is the "fly in the ointment" for oh, what, over 30 years now?!?!?! And yet what have they actually DONE about it.???.....NOTHING!!!

It is a disgrace!

I wish VAG would just disband VWoA/AoA and start fresh. What the US needs is for the strict control of the manufacturer to come into play. The Germans have to bring their own team in and do it right. Not rely on Americans staffing VWoA who often times neither understand or care about the brand they work for.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
I wish VAG would just disband VWoA/AoA and start fresh. What the US needs is for the strict control of the manufacturer to come into play. The Germans have to bring their own team in and do it right. Not rely on Americans staffing VWoA who often times neither understand or care about the brand they work for.


It is absolutely appalling. I'm still floored over the fact the I, at home, could find the part number faster than a trained parts person with all the resources at hand. There is zero excuse for that.

The conversation went something like this. I gave him the model, year, and relevant options. I told him I needed the alternator adjuster bolt. After a bit of looking, he said there are "15" bolts for the alternator on his diagram. I said no, there are like 3 mounting bolts - pivot, adjuster bolt, and bolt for the adjuster bracket to the car. I told him to look at the bottom of his diagram, and he'll find it. I guess he never heard of a keyword search, or looking at the labels.

15 bolts? Where did he come up with that number? Every alternator I've worked on whose belt can be adjusted is mounted so it can pivot. How does an alternator pivot when it's mounted with 15 bolts? Yeesh.

The Germans spend all this time engineering some fine machinery, only to have the North American dealerships staffed by people who haven't the slightest clue about how any of it works, and no desire to learn.

 

[Vizzy]

Garak...

all the more frustrating because when VW first set up shop (at least in the USA) back in the late 50's early 60's they were probably one of the very best dealer networks in the entire country with excellent training, competent service techs, and professional parts people. Granted things were much more simple then but the Germans did a very complete job of making sure that service was done "right" back then...They actually sent ALL their master mechanics to Germany to learn every aspect of the cars. In turn VW sent factory trained mechanics over here as well to help train "lesser" techs.

I think it all started to go wrong when VW handed over the distributorship to Americans.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
I think it all started to go wrong when VW handed over the distributorship to Americans.


Your observations fit, but I still prefer to place the blame upstairs. Without getting political, Americans (and Canadians) run some fine dealerships. Certainly, there are good and bad in all brands, but Audi/VW dealerships certainly have a rather poor reputation.

Perhaps the answer is more supervision from upstairs. It is costing them sales. With the fine vehicles both VW and Audi market, they should be doing far better than they are. When diehard fans refuse to buy your product, something is wrong.

 

[Garak]

Well, the adjuster bolts and other miscellaneous parts, including a fistful of Mahle oil filters, an MTFS, and a set of hood struts showed up. The alternator adjuster bolt went very smoothly. To the people at my local Audi dealership, thanks for nothing.

I've been looking at the valve cover, and I'm wondering if it's worth the bother. It's not as bad as the 20V engines, but it may take a bit of time.

One thing about the Audi, though; I haven't used so many outrageously large wrenches since I last worked on a John Deere combine. The adjuster portion of the adjuster bolt uses like a 21 mm wrench. To change my MTFS, I need a 29 mm wrench! Keep in mind it's a small sensor, to be torqued to no more than 17 ft-lbs. So, do I really need a foot and a half long wrench capable of that much torque? The fitting threads themselves are perhaps 3/8" (or the metric equivalent), and the gripping surface is 29 mm (over 1 1/8"). Sigh.

Of course, I have to choose carefully, since it is a little cramped, just to make things more interesting. A deep socket that size, which I have, would be perfect, but doesn't fit, unless I wish to remove the entire thermostat housing. A regular socket simply won't work.

 

[Garak]

Well, I removed the valve cover. I promised pictures, so here we go.









It's a bit sludgy. It currently has 226,000 km on it. When I got it, it had 205,000 km. It's had a diet of Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Delvac 1300 15w-40, Mobil 1 5w-30, and RP 0w-40. It has mostly had the first two. I did a few short OCIs, since I had no real idea as to how the previous owner treated it.

Considering the very low mileage for the age of the car (an average of about 7,000 miles per year since new), I'm not completely surprised. I would suspect it had a lot of short trips in the city with very little highway driving.

Regardless of the fact that it isn't "factory clean," it does run just fine. It doesn't burn oil or make noise. As you can see from the gasket remnants, it was time for a gasket change.

Given that it's running fine, any ideas on what I could do to clean it up, or should I do anything? Don't bother suggesting MMO. In Regina, I doubt I could find it. I do have confidence that continuing to use HDEOs will be of some help.

I intend to run a load of PYB through it after I'm finished up tonight. I'm going to run it a bit after I get it all back together, then change out the current fill with PYB and a new filter.

My plans are to try GC after the PYB is due to be changed out. Any other suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Garak]

Well, all done. That was about the easiest valve cover gasket replacement I've ever done. I don't know who did it last time, if it was ever done. The nuts were like finger tight. I only had to use a socket to loosen a couple. The gasket was pretty cracked up.

With respect to the oil, I ran it a bit after the change, and then threw PYB 10w-30 in and a new Wix on it.

Any comments about the sludge? They were fairly hard, grainy deposits, not what one would consider run of the mill sludge. What might have caused that? Too long OCIs or less than optimal oil with the turbo?

I'm not terribly worried about it. I didn't bother cleaning, except on the mating surfaces. As you can see from the valve cover design, cleaning that thing perfectly would be a major ordeal. By the time I got it cleaned, I could probably have a new one shipped to me.