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#1938278 - 06/30/10 07:29 AM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: CaspianM]
CaspianM Offline


Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 496
Loc: Ky
Here is some more info on EPA gas regulation:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/fact7gda.htm


Edited by CaspianM (06/30/10 07:31 AM)
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#1938575 - 06/30/10 12:09 PM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: Vesparado]
Bamaro Offline


Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1169
Loc: Balto.
Originally Posted By: Vesparado
"Top Tier"

Strictly a marketing gimmick...no enforcement means no compliance. Put your faith elsewhere.

There is no enforcement with gas & oil additives sold in stores or with the oil and filters themselves. So what.


Edited by Bamaro (06/30/10 12:09 PM)
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#1938606 - 06/30/10 12:39 PM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: Bamaro]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 22422
Loc: NY
As with any purchase let the buyer beware.
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#1938650 - 06/30/10 01:18 PM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: Vesparado]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3545
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: Vesparado
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Vesparado
"Top Tier"

Strictly a marketing gimmick...no enforcement means no compliance. Put your faith elsewhere.


There is nothing to enforce. And auto makers came up with it. Not oil companies.


You and Casper need to get out more. Here's just one example of marketing:

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/top_tier/

You can't reliably have compliance with "standards" without inspection and enforcement. This, plus distributors doing in-kind exchanges to save transportation costs means you have absolutely no idea what "brand" or formulation of gasoline you are buying. About all you can realistically hope for is that it is the labeled octane and is relatively clean.


You need to get out more.

http://www.toptiergas.com/

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.

These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That's something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.

Kindly point out the oil companies that created it if you please.
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#1938907 - 06/30/10 05:24 PM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: eddyzima]
UncleS2 Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3167
Loc: Far North East Texas
Top tier? IMO, marketing.

Without any better information on gas quality in your area, one way to help keep things clean- at least according to some folks, including at least one car-maker(Volvo?)- is to keep switching brands. Run a few tanks of one, then move to another, stick to busy stations that sell a *Lot* of gas.

Our local former Chevron station, with its once-excellent gasoline, was almost put out of business by- Chevron! Gasoline quality had slipped for a few years, then prices went sky-high $4+/gal, to make things worse Chevron prices were *always* higher(20 cents plus) than everyone else around when they used to be equal- so the owner of that station finally said goodby Chevron & is now an independent. Gas is not what it once was- for years my Neon always got better mileage with that gas than anything else- but i's no worse than the last couple years of Chevron.

About 6 miles away there's a convenience store/self-serve Phillips 66 with large banner out front, plus stickers on the pumps, that proudly proclaim their gas contains *NO Ethanol*. Pump stickers also claim their super unleaded as 93 octane. The No Ethanol may even be true- mileage is usually better with it. That's where I buy most of my gas these days.

A couple of miles closer is a Shell self-serve- better mileage than the grocery-chain gas, not quite as good as the Philips 66 gas, but the difference is very small.

Hmm...maybe I should try for some synergystic effect between gas & motor oil and use the Trop-Artic 5w30 for the next OC on the Dakota! grin
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#1938979 - 06/30/10 06:58 PM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: UncleS2]
CaspianM Offline


Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 496
Loc: Ky
Both Shell & Phillips 66 that you are using are Top Tier gas.
_________________________
14 Dodge Durango(Pennzoil5W-20)
13 Lexus CT200h(TGMO 0W-20)
08 Suzuki B-King M1(4T)
10 Xterra SE
06 VTX-1300C
05 Honda 919
00 Jeep Wrangler



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#1940661 - 07/02/10 09:35 AM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: Trajan]
glen242 Offline


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 63
Loc: Western PA
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Vesparado
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Vesparado
"Top Tier"

Strictly a marketing gimmick...no enforcement means no compliance. Put your faith elsewhere.


There is nothing to enforce. And auto makers came up with it. Not oil companies.


You and Casper need to get out more. Here's just one example of marketing:

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/top_tier/

You can't reliably have compliance with "standards" without inspection and enforcement. This, plus distributors doing in-kind exchanges to save transportation costs means you have absolutely no idea what "brand" or formulation of gasoline you are buying. About all you can realistically hope for is that it is the labeled octane and is relatively clean.


You need to get out more.

http://www.toptiergas.com/

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is the premier standard for gasoline performance. Six of the world's top automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi recognize that the current EPA minimum detergent requirements do not go far enough to ensure optimal engine performance.

Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction.

These automakers have raised the bar. TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline help drivers avoid lower quality gasoline which can leave deposits on critical engine parts, which reduces engine performance. That's something both drivers and automakers want to avoid.

Kindly point out the oil companies that created it if you please.



So you are saying "Since the minimum additive performance standards were first established by EPA in 1995, most gasoline marketers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additive in their gasoline by up to 50%. As a result, the ability of a vehicle to maintain stringent Tier 2 emission standards have been hampered, leading to engine deposits which can have a big impact on in-use emissions and driver satisfaction". Does this mean the EPA is not looking into this as far as emission standards? How can the detergent level be reduced by 50% and not impact what ever the EPA is measuring?

Is anyone having problems meeting emissions standards by not using 'Top Tier' gas?

IMHO, "Top Tier" is a money making scam. Note how much the oil companies have to pay them to get 'certified'.

I have been using 'non top tier' BP gasoline for 30 years, in a many different cars - right now a 2004 Subaru, 1998 Ford Ranger, and a 1976 modified Corvette, without any problems.

I consider "Top Tier" marketing BULLCRAP.


Edited by glen242 (07/02/10 09:37 AM)

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#1940710 - 07/02/10 10:19 AM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: mikered30]
LTVibe Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1137
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: mikered30
Exxon and Mobil and a few others have been added to the top tier list, BP is still not on there.

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html


The recent appearance of Exxon and Mobil on the list was timed to match the launch of their new fuel marketing campaign:

Fuelprogress.com
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#1940803 - 07/02/10 12:26 PM Re: no top tier gas stations near me. what to use? [Re: LTVibe]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 22422
Loc: NY
Wow the only top tier gas we have is Shell. Sunoco is local but the list says Sunoco Canada. Shell mentions Shell, I assume US, and Shell Canada. It is selling for 10 cents a gallon more than anything else. I thought BP and Sunoco were top tier. Thanks for the list.

I use Shell in the Jeep, and what ever is cheapest in my other two vehicles.
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