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#191192 - 05/18/06 10:17 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
toocrazy2yoo Offline


Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Herndon, Virginia
[I dont know]

I dunno..

There are eight or 10 here that KNOW..

A bunch more are here that THINK they know, but don't know, and don't know that they don't know. And then there are the reasonable ones like me, who don't know, and know they don't know, don't pretend to know, and will always defer to those that DO know..

When it come to oil itself, I don't even know enough to even ask the questions. But it's a kicker to watch those that don't know try to show their know, ya know? [LOL!]

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#191193 - 05/18/06 12:01 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
FD777 Offline


Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 223
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
Blah, I didn't read the entire thread, but I think I get the gist of it.

I try to clear up some of the confusions here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000945

My thread doesn't directly address Buford's questions, but I hope it helps.

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#191194 - 05/18/06 12:05 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
This link has the real fat, skinny, and the moxie to do it for you Buford!No!! This guy has all of Buford's answers ...for real!

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#191195 - 05/18/06 12:35 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
quote:
Originally posted by FD777:
Blah, I didn't read the entire thread, but I think I get the gist of it.

I try to clear up some of the confusions here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000945

My thread doesn't directly address Buford's questions, but I hope it helps.

Excellent thread! I have known that some 5W-30s, particularly Mobil 1, are thicker than the same brand of 10W-30.

I think I should have stated something earlier. I like to take my car on about a 20-30 minute drive before I change my oil. I currently use Mobil 1 5W-30 and have always used that weight in my car. When I remove the oil pan drain plug, the oil runs out like water. It is not what I would consider as being thick. I think the point I have been trying to elude to is that I wonder why 5W-20 is now becoming the norm. Meaning isn't 5W-30 superb for today's cars? Meaning 5W-30 is pretty thin when hot and offers the same cold protection since both are 5W. In other words, how can a thinner version (5W-20) of an oil that is already pretty thin (5W-30) be any better?

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#191196 - 05/18/06 12:39 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
One more thing in regards to CAFE. If it is being mandated for vehicle manufacturers to use 5W-20 or not they pay fines, why does GM and numerous other vehicles still use 5W-30?

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#191197 - 05/18/06 12:54 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
BlazerLT Offline


Registered: 08/15/04
Posts: 2359
Loc: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
This link has the real fat, skinny, and the moxie to do it for you Buford!No!! This guy has all of Buford's answers ...for real!

[LOL!]

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#191198 - 05/18/06 01:19 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
Bryanccfshr: Good info.

Triple_Se7en: Good point, but it might be clsoe. I have never seen 5W-40 poured, etc.

Rodbuckler: I am tempted to try it, but it sounds to me like it will burn oil. I guess our engines are too accustomed to 5W-30.

BlazerLT: Yes I know the W stands for weight, but it is still 5W weight meaning 5 winter weight right?

I never caught that obvious mistake. I meant that the W stands for WINTER. My bad.

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#191199 - 05/18/06 01:30 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
BlazerLT Offline


Registered: 08/15/04
Posts: 2359
Loc: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
Bryanccfshr: Good info.

Triple_Se7en: Good point, but it might be clsoe. I have never seen 5W-40 poured, etc.

Rodbuckler: I am tempted to try it, but it sounds to me like it will burn oil. I guess our engines are too accustomed to 5W-30.

BlazerLT: Yes I know the W stands for weight, but it is still 5W weight meaning 5 winter weight right?

I never caught that obvious mistake. I meant that the W stands for WINTER. My bad.
Ah, ok, that's cool.

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#191200 - 05/18/06 05:00 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
GMorg Offline


Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 2370
Loc: Mizzou-land
Buford,

If I have offended you, I offer my apologies. My intent was complimentary when I commented on how civil the thread had been. As to answering your question, I thought that was done on the first page of the thread. If your question remained unanswered after the first page, then I still don't understand the question.

Your question seems to revolve around the idea that 5WX oils are nearly idendical at ambient temps. It was presented that the grade system descibes two extremes in temps and that ambient is not described in that system.

Curious about viscostiy? Here are a couple of 2002 threads. Neither thread is closed. However, I don't think that either thread can supply information that is not offered in this thread.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000438#000007
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000549#000000

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#191201 - 05/18/06 07:36 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
jayjr98 Offline


Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 32
Loc: ?
Can we please cut the crap and stop proclaiming, with a blanket statement that, "5w30 is better for a hot engine than 5w20"... (I'm paraphrasing some of Bufurd's comments in this thread)

There is absolutely no proof to this statement...

All you have to do is search through the UOA's on here for people running 5w20 dino for up to 7-8k miles and see that their oil is performing wondorfully.

If thicker is so much better why not just dump 2 pounds of bearing grease in the bottom of your oil pan? (joke of course)

I own 2 Honda's and will stick with the recommended 5w20. How many Honda engines have failed since the switch from 5w30 to 5w20 several years ago???

It is not a CAFE conspiracy to ruin your engines for the sake of gas mileage folks!!!

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#191202 - 05/19/06 09:13 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
bar1 Offline


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 866
Loc: Norway
Jay: For that same Honda, the European recommendation is 5W-30. I've even matched engine parts numbers with European and NA engines. They're equal.

"There is absolutely no proof to this statement..."
Jay: Your right, but 5W-30 has proven itself in those engines in all parts of the world (exept NA/Canada).

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#191203 - 05/18/06 10:33 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
FD777 Offline


Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 223
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
I think the point I have been trying to elude to is that I wonder why 5W-20 is now becoming the norm. Meaning isn't 5W-30 superb for today's cars? Meaning 5W-30 is pretty thin when hot and offers the same cold protection since both are 5W. In other words, how can a thinner version (5W-20) of an oil that is already pretty thin (5W-30) be any better?

How can 5w-20 offer better protection than a 5w-30?
That all depends on your engine! If the engineer "designed" the engine to run on 5w-20, then that is what it was made for. Thicker oil does not always give better protection.

There is one caveat to my answer.
Many argue that 5w-20 is only recommended for better fuel consumption. And that a 5w-30 is the better oil for these cars.
I cannot tell you if this is true or not.

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#191204 - 05/19/06 12:17 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
I think I figured out how to use the search function effectively, lol. Just whatever topic you are trying to learn more about, be sure to search all the forums then go to the last page of results which are the oldest ones. When you click on a link, be sure to go to the first post in the thread and read the whole thread.

By doing that, I found these topics which answered a few of the questions I have asked here...

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010687
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010868
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010832
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010520
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010499

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#191205 - 05/19/06 10:27 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
sinker73 Offline


Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Arizona
quote:
Originally posted by BlazerLT:
quote:
Originally posted by sinker73:
5W-20 and 5W-30 are both the same viscosity at room temp. They both start with the same base oil--what we designate 5W. The additives that turn it into a 20 or 30 only do so at warmer temps. The additives are little (plastic like) molecules that "unstretch" at warmer temps. When they do so, they "grab" the nearby oil molecules (which are smaller) and thus "thicken" the oil. (BTW, "shearing" is when these large molecules break and no longer "grab" the smaller oil molecules.)

At room temp, when the plastic-like molecules are not spread out, the oils from a can of 5-20 and 5-30 should run the same.

lol, so oil thickens when it gets hot.

That is weird, when I drain my oil out of my hot engine it is like water compared to what it is out of the bottle at room temp.

Ignorance is thick with the new guys.

No, Blazer, all oil thins when hot. But multi oils thin differently than straight. When that hot 200 degree oil comes out of your engine it's of course thinner than room temp 5 weight... But it's thicker than 200 degree 5 weight. In fact, it's about as thick as 200 degree 30 weight. =)

Perhaps you should learn a bit before you start with the names.

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#191206 - 05/19/06 10:32 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
sinker73 Offline


Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Arizona
quote:
Originally posted by TomJones76:
quote:
Originally posted by sinker73:
5W-20 and 5W-30 are both the same viscosity at room temp. They both start with the same base oil--what we designate 5W. The additives that turn it into a 20 or 30 only do so at warmer temps. The additives are little (plastic like) molecules that "unstretch" at warmer temps. When they do so, they "grab" the nearby oil molecules (which are smaller) and thus "thicken" the oil. (BTW, "shearing" is when these large molecules break and no longer "grab" the smaller oil molecules.)

At room temp, when the plastic-like molecules are not spread out, the oils from a can of 5-20 and 5-30 should run the same.

Room temp isn't where the "5W" is calibrated.
The 5W refers to oil properties at -25 F or so.
Also, the base oil is NOT usually 5W.
It would be typical for a 5W30 to be a 10W or 20W, then have pour point depressants added to improve starting, and have more additives put in to improve its viscosity index and make the "30" part accurate.

I never said at what temp 5W is designated. It doesn't matter. It's a standard. 5W is the same oil whether we are at -40 or 110 degrees.

Yes, the base for 5W-30 is 5 weight oil. The additives "thicken" it as it warms. (Relatively)

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