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#191147 - 05/14/06 10:30 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
What are you talking about? It makes perfect sense if the number before the W is the same. 5W-40 is thicker than 5W-20 and 5W-30. 5W-30 is thicker than 5W-20 but thinner than 5W-40.

[Dummy!]

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#191148 - 05/14/06 10:34 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Blue99 Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2233
Loc: Wisconsin
quote:
Originally posted by Blue99:
Buford, I think the answers to these questions will become self evident if you become acquainted with the SAE J300 Viscsoity Chart.

5W is a minimum 3.8 cSt @ 100C

10W is a minimum 4.1 cSt @ 100C

A SAE 30 viscosity grade oil is 9.3 to 12.5 cSt @ 100C.

quote:
both 5W-30 and 10W-30 have thinned into 30 weight oil which is lighter than 5W and 10W oil.

Based on the SAE J300 chart, this statement is off the mark.
Buford, refer to the J300 chart in the link I provided.

To keep it simple, the xW rating comes from column 2.

The SAE viscosity grades are defined in columns 4 & 5 for the 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 viscosity grades.

Example: SAE 40 is 12.5 cSt minimum to less than 16.3 cSt maximum.

A 5W-40 meets 6600 max cP @ -30C,(cold) and is between 12.5 cSt and 16.3 cSt @ 100C (hot).

That's it in a nutshell! [Smile]

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#191149 - 05/14/06 10:46 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
G-MAN Offline


Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 8854
Loc: SC
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
What are you talking about? It makes perfect sense if the number before the W is the same. 5W-40 is thicker than 5W-20 and 5W-30. 5W-30 is thicker than 5W-20 but thinner than 5W-40.

Depending on the temperature, a 5w20 could be thicker than a 5w40. It's all relative. All things being equal, a 5w20 will always be somewhat thinner than a 5w40. But depending on the base oils used, you could have a 5w40 that is thinner at sub zero temps than a 5w20.

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#191150 - 05/15/06 12:09 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
So then you guys are saying the numbers on the bottle don't really matter?

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#191151 - 05/15/06 01:53 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
mjpolge Offline


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Watertown, New York
The numbers on the bottle matter. It provides a relative quantification of the properties of that particular oil. It is true that 5w-40 is thicker than 5w-20 and 5w-30. Also it is true that 5w-30 is thicker than 5w-20 and thinner than 5w-40. However, the factor difference theory (4,6,8)is just incorrect. [Duh!]

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#191152 - 05/15/06 03:27 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
BlazerLT Offline


Registered: 08/15/04
Posts: 2359
Loc: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
BlazerLT: Yes I know the W stands for weight, but it is still 5W weight meaning 5 winter weight right?

No, it is just a scale of how the oil can handle lower temperatures.

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#191153 - 05/15/06 05:33 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
At any rate, I doubt there would be any harm using 5W-20 instead of 5W-30 especially if your owner's manual specifies 5W-20. I need to read some UOAs on 5W-20. I will probably wind up sticking with 5W-30.

That is another thing that kind of bugs me actually. 5W-30 will shear down to pretty close to what 5W-20 is new. I suppose water can cool things down quicker than thick syrup, lol.

Is there really much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30?

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#191154 - 05/15/06 05:42 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
TomJones76 Offline


Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 1250
Loc: Akron, OH
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
quote:
Originally posted by TomJones76:
Wrong.
5W20s have a slightly lower viscosity at room temp than 5W30s have, and usually a slightly lower minimum pumpting temp.

That is true, but they both weight the same at 0 C right?
Others have answered better than I can, but to respond to you, the scale isn't "balanced" on the bottom at 0 celsius.
At the top end the scale "balances" at 100C or 210F.
At the bottom, it doesn't "balance" except if you're comparing oils of the exact same cold-temp rating, and even then the "balance" can be imprecise.

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#191155 - 05/15/06 05:43 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
TomJones76 Offline


Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 1250
Loc: Akron, OH
"Really much difference?"
Not a ton, especially between thin 30 and thick 20.
The fuel economy difference is expected to be something like 0.3%....

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#191156 - 05/15/06 06:56 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Rodbuckler Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 461
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
Is there really much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30?

Yes. Try the 5W-20 in your 4.6L Modular Motor and you will be hooked. You will never go back to that 30 weight concrete. If it uses oil you can always thicken and sticky it up some with the Delo.

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#191157 - 05/15/06 08:23 PM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
jmacmaster Offline


Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 1027
Loc: East Helena, Montana
quote:
Originally posted by Rodbuckler:
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
Is there really much difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30?

Yes. Try the 5W-20 in your 4.6L Modular Motor and you will be hooked. You will never go back to that 30 weight concrete. If it uses oil you can always thicken and sticky it up some with the Delo.
If you start to burn oil after switching from a 30 to a 20, I suppose its reasonable to assume that the oil burning is caused by the thinner oil. But why not just switch back to a 30, rather than using some additive to thicken it? I'm not in favor of thickening by additive as against simply buying a thicker oil

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#191158 - 05/16/06 02:14 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
I am gonna stick with 5W-30 for the life of my car. It burns no oil, runs smooth, and gets 25 MPG. Not bad for a fast V-8 car at all [Smile]

5W-20 probably won't be too great for people seeking long service life like I am. I am hoping to get 500,000 miles out of my car.

I wonder what oil weight(s) Irv Gordon runs in his 2.25 million mile car.

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#191159 - 05/16/06 02:56 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
blmqzjc Offline


Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 193
Loc: Ormond by the Sea, FL
quote:
Originally posted by Buford T. Justice:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.asp
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp

Just looking at the numbers there, the performance appears to be pretty close between 5W-20 and 5W-30. Strangely 5W-30 pours at a lower temperature while being a bit thicker than 5W-20.

My car, a 1998 Ford Mustang GT, has the 4.6L engine that is qualified to run 5W-20 according to Ford. But would I want to? I don't know. It would seem to me the engine would make more noises and oil would start burning.

I had a 95 Mark VIII with the 4.6L engine. Used 5w30 Motorcraft year round - never consumed any oil. Never added a drop between 5K oil changes. Fairly warm climate (Atlanta, GA) - extremes are around 0 degrees F to 100 degrees F, but normally low 20's in winter to mid 90's in August. Just wish the tranny had been as good as that 4.6L DOHC rocket!

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#191160 - 05/16/06 03:55 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Buford T. Justice Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 523
Loc: Illinois, USA
Yes the 4.6L Ford engine is a real performer. I may still try 5W-20 as there are a few things about it that make sense at least to me...

1) It is thinner. This means it MIGHT provide better start up protection than 5W-30. Also, thinner liquids can move heat quicker than thicker ones.

2) It is recommended. My 1998 Ford Mustang GT with the 4.6L engine is one of the cars that has been 'revised' to use 5W-20.

3) Better oil. All of the 5W-20 oils are the latest Group III/IV which makes consumers use better oil.

HOWEVER, I might stick with 5W-30...

1) My car has always used it and runs PERFECTLY fine.

2) I don't think there is much difference in weight and fluidity between the 5W-20 and 5W-30.

3) My oil pressure gauge goes straight to the recommended pressure on start up which to me means that the oil is on the critical parts that wear down at start up when no oil is on them. It is instantaneous. There is no delay.

4) Thicker oils quiet engines. Engines will wear down no matter what. The thickest oil you can safely run (comparing 5W-20 to 5W-30) should be used.

5) Oil shears down with longer use. A 5W-20 oil after 5K miles may be more like a 5W-15. A 5W-30 may be more like a 5W-25. Those numbers may not be exact and probably depend on the brand of oil and base stock used. Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 is thicker than Mobil 1 5W-30. I thought I read a UOA that the Mobil EP 5W-30 was actually a mid 30 weight oil.

6) 5W-30 is a thin oil already. I don't think the slightly 'thinner' 5W-20 would be a benefit.

I may try 5W-20, but I am in no gut rush to try it. I am perfectly happy with 5W-30.

I know my situation is different than most people here. Most have a car that came with 5W-20 and want to run 5W-30. I have a car that came with 5W-30 that can use the 5W-20 according to Ford.

The average fuel economy saved is .5% so instead of getting 25 MPG, I would 25.125 MPG. Not a big deal, lol.

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#191161 - 05/16/06 05:11 AM Re: 5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30
Rodbuckler Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 461
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Forget the gas mileage increase. You won't notice anything significant. I dropped my oil viscosity into the 20's because of unacceptable power loss to the oil system with the 30 weights. You will notice the difference the instant the engine fires with 5W-20 in it.

You can always thicken it up when you top off if the motor feels harsher, or uses oil. My high-mileage 4.6L loves the oil at the high side of the 20 range, and with some smooth conventional oil blended in.

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